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Where champions are made

FINALLY, someone posted this online. Many thanks.

120 Comments

  1. (Opie)

    May 24, 2009 at 7:33 pm

    Champions? You mean like the 2009 Georgia Southern baseball Eagles? Oh, I get it now. Thanky, Hill Billy. hhaaha

  2. Whatever

    May 24, 2009 at 8:26 pm

    ^
    |
    |

    Must be a 13 year old up past his bedtime

  3. WB

    May 24, 2009 at 9:30 pm

    Remember the time, well last year, when Ga. So. football was just at 500 in conference and barely above 500 overall. Not too much room to talk, especially about baseball b/c it isn't relevant.

  4. Dan

    May 25, 2009 at 4:12 am

    I doubt that's a 13 year old, by the looks of the grammar and punctuation, that's a Ga. Southern graduate.

  5. madapp

    May 25, 2009 at 12:13 pm

    Prince Charles is at it again…out right stealing gold seats from owners while denying they bought the seats for life….. do us a favor Prince Charles and leave!!!!

  6. clayton

    May 26, 2009 at 1:40 am

    Well that sure is a nice little commercial.

  7. app09

    May 26, 2009 at 7:39 am

    madapp, I have only been following ASU for 5 years now, but I have never heard of buying the gold seats for life, when did this happen?

  8. DRM

    May 26, 2009 at 7:54 am

    It happened in the 70s, back in the Fred Robinette era as Yosef Club director, Jim Brakefield era as head football coach. If you've only been around recently, those names probably mean nothing to you.

  9. DRM

    May 26, 2009 at 8:01 am

    As I recall, the "gold seats for life" promise was that as long as one maintained their Yosef membership and purchased the appropriate number of seasons tickets each year, those tickets would be in the specified gold seats.

    The original purchases of gold seats, I believe, went for a one-time payment of $300 each (remember, it was the 1970s, and ASU football wasn't nearly as popular as it now is); subsequent purchases were at $500 per seat. Purchased seats were identified with a little name plate on each seat back. At least some of those name plates are still in place.

  10. madapp

    May 26, 2009 at 8:15 am

    Now enters Prince Charles that says this lifetime deal never happened and these are now premium seats. Double the regular season ticket price and huge jump in Yosef contribution level. How do you spell crook??? PRINCE CHARLES!!!!!

  11. BeauFoster

    May 26, 2009 at 8:27 am

    So, madapp, what's the deal? Are you not able to keep the seats because you don't have enough Yosef points or are you mad that the price to keep the seats is going up? Is there a Yosef donation issue? Just griping about it without giving any information doesn't endear anyone to your plight.

  12. madapp

    May 26, 2009 at 8:35 am

    The deal was the seats were bought based on a promise that you paid the initial investment for the seats, continued to belong to the Yosef Club and pay the regular season ticket price and you had the seats for life. Now his hindass Prince Charles has decided to lie about the seats and break the arrangement….moral of the story…don't enter into an agreement with ASU for PSL's and think they will long term honor the agreement!!!!!

  13. BeauFoster

    May 26, 2009 at 8:37 am

    You said that they are now premium seats. Does that mean that they are priced higher now? Could you keep them if you paid that amount?

  14. madapp

    May 26, 2009 at 8:45 am

    You can keep the seats if you pay double the season ticket price, and 5 times the minimum yosef membership. In addition, once Prince Charles gets the Gold Seats back from the original owners he "rents" them for a $2,500 yosef contribution and double the normal season ticket price. The issue for me is an unethical AD trying to take seats that were purchased for life away from a smaller contributor so he can charge more money from them….how would you feel if you paid $1,000.00 for seats and had him do this to you????

  15. BeauFoster

    May 26, 2009 at 9:22 am

    I'm not refuting anything you were saying, I just wasn't completely familiar with the situation. I haven't been in those seats since Lott Mayberry was alive, so I didn't know how much the price had gone up. That's why I was asking.

  16. madapp

    May 26, 2009 at 9:31 am

    No problem…

  17. Mike

    May 26, 2009 at 9:44 am

    DRM, I'm relatively new to the whole alumni and yosef scene, but I know of Fred Robinette and his connection to Appalachian. I wouldn't assume that those names mean "nothing" to us. Robinette's impact at ASU is noticed everyday when you see a campus tour led by the ASU Student Ambassadors. He created that group in 1977.

    I wonder if you knew that?

  18. jonmac

    May 26, 2009 at 10:36 am

    That was a pretty big promise to make/accept and expect it to hold true for 30+ years. Were there contracts signed? Anything in writing? Just wondering. If there were it seems it would be hard for Cobb to deny, legally.

  19. DRM

    May 26, 2009 at 10:38 am

    Yes, I certainly did know that, Mike. And I've known Fred since long before 1977.

    Also, I wasn't assuming anything. App09 said he/she has only been around the program for five years, and asked when buying gold seats for life occurred. I was responding specifically to that question, and the stated five-year history with ASU. Apparently, you didn't read carefully enough to get the complete context.

  20. Mike

    May 26, 2009 at 10:45 am

    no, I did. I just felt like giving you hell.

  21. DRM

    May 26, 2009 at 10:53 am

    Okay. If that makes you happy, glad to oblige.

  22. DRM

    May 26, 2009 at 10:54 am

    jonmac, I think that's exactly the rub. It's been a long time, but I don't recall that any legal documents were involved. I may be wrong; if so, madapp can correct me. But I'd bet gold seat purchasers received one of Fred's friendly thank-you notes, perhaps, but not anything legal. As you say, if there were legal documents involved, it seems Cobb would have more difficulty ousting decades-long seat holders, or extracting additional payments from them for the right to retain the seats.

    On the supply/demand business side, the school's posture and approach makes sense. But it flies in the face of valuing long-time fan loyalty and dedication. On that front, it sounds a lot like the monetary focus of "big time" athletics about which Naysayer often comments. And it probably results in a number of App supporters who would fit the description implied by madapp's posting name.

  23. madapp

    May 26, 2009 at 11:00 am

    Alas there were legal documents involved, but after several moves the paper work is stuff away in the attic. Now Prince Charles claims the University can't find

  24. AppAttack

    May 26, 2009 at 11:02 am

    madapp has a point. The Gold Seats were offered for "purchase" at $1,000 each and reserved as long as the person bought season tickets. Yosef Club membership had nothing to do with it since season tickets seating priority did not come about until a couple of years ago. Selling those seats was a way to get funding for the stadium during the expansion in 1978-79. Some seats still have the names of those who purchased them attached. I am sure there was some type of paperwork involved somewhere. Perhaps madapp should contact Fred Robinette and get him to call the Prince to vouch for thre story. He lives at Bermuda Run in Advance just outside WS.

  25. madapp

    May 26, 2009 at 11:02 am

    ANY DOCUMENTATION AT ALL regarding the gold seats. In my early days we had Watergate….now I call this Cobbgate!!!! Like a corn cobb up the rear!!!! The University didn't go through several moves…they have the documents……

  26. Mike

    May 26, 2009 at 11:22 am

    interesting points. How can you make your voices heard in a situation like this?

  27. madapp

    May 26, 2009 at 11:34 am

    First of all, NEVER,EVER trust the University to hold up to their word. DO NOT enter into any agreement with the University and think they will uphold their end of the agreement as long as Prince Corn Cobb is in power there…..

  28. clayton

    May 26, 2009 at 11:45 am

    That's still a pretty cool commercial.

  29. DRM

    May 26, 2009 at 12:44 pm

    Decades old memory may fail me–again–but I believe the initial offering of the gold seats was priced at $300 each. I'm almost positive that at least some were sold at that price, with the next wave going at $500 each, and with the price then being moved to $1,000 each, as AppAttack says.

    Assuming average inflation at three percent (which is almost certainly low), $1,000 in 1979 would equate to about $2,500 today. Though I don't think it is an ethical position they're taking, that may be part of the university's thinking–$2,500 – $3,000, in their view, probably looks like under-pricing for those seats, which are definitely the best in the stadium (aside from the recently constructed boxes which, to me, would present a rather sterile environment from which to watch the game).

  30. Appnaysayer

    May 26, 2009 at 1:00 pm

    I'm not one to say "I told you so…[since when, right?]," but I think you can look forward to more of this sort of thing. It began by blackmailing long-time season ticket holders into joining the Yosef Club if said ticket holders wanted to keep their seats. Now the process has moved on to the gold seats. Word on the street is that the stadium renovation is not "paying for itself" as once advertised (with luxury boxes etc. in the down economy), so there's an effort to squeeze every drop of blood from the proverbial turnip.

    I don't like it. Never have. And like Madapp I've been pretty darn frustrated with the direction of athletics, especially football, over the last four years. But no one in a position to do something about it seems to care and that includes top-level administration. If there are legal documents or something in writing "deeding" you the seats for life, I'd suggest you take up the mantra from the 1960s and "sue the !@#$%&*#." That might get their attention. Otherwise, about all I can say is I feel your pain. Loyalty is not rewarded by ASU athletics, unless, of course, one also forks over a healthy yearly contribution.

  31. madapp

    May 26, 2009 at 3:44 pm

    One thing we all will agree on is that Prince Charles of Corn Cobb is out of his ever living mind if he thinks people are going to pay top dollar for seats to watch The Apps play big time contenders like Elon…..especially after he has SCREWED them out of the seats they bought……

  32. madapp

    May 26, 2009 at 3:54 pm

    Hey Appnaysayer…haven't you ever heard the expression "There's No Loyalty Amoung Theives"? The ASU AD Office is a Den of Theives…..

  33. Mike

    May 26, 2009 at 6:26 pm

    interesting to see no one taking the side of Cobb.

    Quick question: To all of you who are pretty upset with this situation, are you still a season ticket holder?

    I just want to see if you were mad enough to be driven away from watching home football games.

  34. madapp

    May 26, 2009 at 6:31 pm

    I will no longer contribute to the University or buy season tickets as long as Prince Charles of Corn Cobb is employeed there. He really increased revenues by screwing us, didn't he?

  35. Joe

    May 27, 2009 at 2:27 am

    Theres always going to be a few people pissed off no matter what Cobb and the athletic department do. Not saying what they are doing is wrong or right, just saying.

    If they don't raise the prices (again, not saying if its wrong or right), the younger, newer alumni will be pissed they cant get seats.

    I do understand your frustration though madapp. Its just a catch-22 — always going to piss someone off. Maybe they are looking at it as the newer, younger alumni recently graduated and they want to cater to them more??

  36. BeauFoster

    May 27, 2009 at 2:52 am

    In this instance, there's no reason for anyone to argue for CC. The athletic department made their decision and are apparently sticking with it. Personally, I don't know enough about the agreement to know whether or not it's contractually wrong or not.

    However, from the information I've been given, it sounds like what has been done is actually legit, given the parameters. To keep the seats, you have to pay for the season ticket. I've seen nothing that sets the season ticket price in stone. These are some of the best seats in the house we are talking about, they should cost more – just as seats on the hill should cost less.

    PSLs (which is what this appears to be) generally are hinged to two things: 1)the upfront payment to secure the seating license and 2)payment for the ticket each season. You don't pay for it, you don't keep it. The Panthers don't give fans the ability to name their own price, why should ASU?

    It seems like some fans feel alienated and have taken to this comment section to vent. Eh, it's not what I would do but it isn't happening to me. Personally, I fully expect my tickets to cost more than others because I sit on the 48 yard line. I guess I'm conditioned to it by virtue of buying a whole lot of event tickets over my lifetime.

  37. madapp

    May 27, 2009 at 3:33 am

    Hey Beau…..we all have our opinions, the University committed to me that I would pay the regular season ticket price when I shelled out what then was big bucks. If you want to deal with an unethical group of people, that is certainly your right. But beware of the old saying, "Those that lay with dogs get fleas"

  38. Appnaysayer

    May 27, 2009 at 3:37 am

    The problem here is a stadium renovation project and athletic department in debt. I've heard various figures tossed around as to how much the project is in the hole. No one seems to know for sure, but I haven't heard anyone say that things are "on track." I've even heard that funds and workers from other areas of the university have been dispatched to the stadium project (I'm less inclined to believe the latter, but that it's out there as a rumor and that I've heard no one deny it strikes me as interesting.) Maybe someone on the board knows the truth.

    Right now, while the team is winning, it makes sense to Athletics to demand more for tickets, create de facto PSLs, etc. in an effort to get this thing in the black. I think the situation may well be different in a few years when–as is certain to happen–the team is again good, but not championship quality (oops that's what we are at present) or simply mediocre. At that point, you won't be able to give away luxury boxes and PSLs. One thing ASU fans have proven over the last four years is that they are as fickle as Boone weather.

  39. madapp

    May 27, 2009 at 3:43 am

    Good morning Appnaysayer ( : I have to wonder sometimes who is the most fickle…the ASU fans or an adminstration that makes agreements and then breaks them on a whim. One thing is for sure….Prince Charles of Corn Cobb is out to stick the old corn Cobb up anyone's rear to make a name for himself and go on to a bigger job with a bigger university.

  40. BeauFoster

    May 27, 2009 at 3:48 am

    The deal is, you are paying regular season ticket price for the tickets, it just so happens that the value of your ticket is higher than that of someone in a different area of the stadium. Unless a contract says that you will be charged the exact same thing for a ticket as someone in section 5A, row FFF, seat 4, then I don't really see what your argument is.

  41. jonmac

    May 27, 2009 at 3:48 am

    You guys realize that there are other ways to contribute to ASU besides through YOSEF, right? I wouldn't through the whole University under the bus because you disagree with athletic dept./Yosef policies. Unless, of course, the only reason you give is to get something in return, which isn't really giving then, is it? I agree that if you were promised gold seats if you remained in Yosef and purchased the ticket then you should get them, but you have to pay the price of the ticket, which, imo, should be higher for better seats. I'd also like to see a reduced price on hill tickets and those with them not allowed to sit in student/GA sections, aka standing room only, which is really what it is. It would be a matter of ticket checkers in the seating areas actually checking tickets instead of just standing there. Do students now have to have printed tickets or can they still get in on just their ID?

  42. jonmac

    May 27, 2009 at 3:49 am

    Correction, "throw" the University under the bus, my coffee hasn't kicked in yet.

  43. madapp

    May 27, 2009 at 3:52 am

    You seem to be confused jonmac…we in the gold seats "purchased" those seats. Maybe you would like to buy a car and have the bank decided to double your car payment????

  44. AppAttack

    May 27, 2009 at 3:57 am

    Most of those who shelled out the original asking price for Gold Seats are long gone. The few who remain do not have the combined clout to make the administration change. Cobb haas put himself in a no lose situation. The few low buck disgruntled fans he runs off will be replaced by those with larger bank accounts. As is in all things if you want to know the reason behind anything, follow the money.

  45. madapp

    May 27, 2009 at 3:59 am

    Unfortunately you are right Appattack…..Prince Charles will be long gone to a bigger job and leave behind the loyal ASU fans he screwed without a thought.

  46. clayton

    May 27, 2009 at 4:19 am

    1. That is a good commercial.

    2. So let me understand this correctly. The "gold seat" people paid some money in the 1970s so they could keep their seats for life? Now, they can't? Or they just have to pay more for season tickets? I may have an opinion, I just want to be clear before I express it.

  47. clayton

    May 27, 2009 at 4:23 am

    If I were to purchase a season ticket for a "gold seat" would I pay more or less for that ticket than somebody who invested in one back in the 1970s?

  48. Appnaysayer

    May 27, 2009 at 4:39 am

    Strangely, I find myself agreeing with Appattack about this. As i've said before, there's nothing particularly unique about what ASU Athletics is doing. It's done in all big-time or wanna-be programs. It is the system of college athletics–especially football–and the funding of same that is corrupt (Check the posting on Congress trying to figure out the money trail). It amounts to selling access to college athletes to the highest bidder. As long as we buy into the system, then our hands get dirty and problems (these are but the first of many) are sure to follow. What bothers me most is that most at the university–alumni, students, administrators–seem to accept this as a "given" if we want a successful football program. There's a "don't bother me with details, just keep the tailgates going" mentality that dominates football.

    If Peterson has a winning hoops season or two, those who've been holding tickets in the near-empty Holmes Center for 10 years will face the same problem. We'll have to ante up or move to the rafters or maybe both. Money is all that matters to this athletic administration.

  49. madapp

    May 27, 2009 at 4:43 am

    I think it's time to pack the Corn Cobb up and send him back to MOO U……

  50. Joe

    May 27, 2009 at 5:12 am

    I guess every company is doing business wrong as well.. damn them for trying to make money!

    an ice cream cone used to be $0.50 at most.. now its over $3.. a coke used to be a nickel, now its $1+.. Damn supply and demand

    It is a simple business concept.. oh wait, business people didn't go through rigorous classes, so they don't know anything 😉

  51. Joe

    May 27, 2009 at 5:12 am

    And I will state again that I am not saying if it is right or wrong, but it is the way the WORLD works.. not just App athletics

  52. Jamey

    May 27, 2009 at 5:14 am

    If you want to move up to the Big Time with your athletics then be prepared to see Big Time pricing and to see some of the tradition and loyalty go by the wayside. I am not saying that I like it, but we all know this is the reality of big time college athletics. For those that want to move to Div I-A then you can prepare for even more costs being passed along to the fans. It is the nature of the beast and will not change.

    Some of the niceties and traditions that we have all enjoyed will undoubtedly go away as they have at any other Universities. I can guarantee that at one time or another UNC, NCSU, Duke, Wake…etc have all crossed their loyal fans in order to increase revenue and expand their programs. It SUCKS for those that have been there supporting these programs for years, but it is the cost of building athletics. This is not the first nor the last, and it will happen whether Cobb is in charge or not. I think some people give him credit for having more power that he actually possesses.

  53. Appnaysayer

    May 27, 2009 at 5:28 am

    It's hard to make a case that athletics, especially football, is doing "business" right when they LOSE money EVERY year–as do the vast majority of programs nationwide.

    These last three posts illustrate the general attitude about which I speak. No one cares whether this is right or wrong or whether it's even profitable. It's just the "price" we pay for our entertainment. At some point, we ought to question just what it is we're being sold and whether it's truly worth what it costs, monetarily and otherwise. THAT would be good business.

  54. madapp

    May 27, 2009 at 5:42 am

    I have been in sales my entire career…..in my world good business is following through with committments you make and delivering the product for the agreed upon price and specifications. Any thing less in the business world is classified as a fly by nighter and people don't do repeat business with flim flam organizations such as what our AD Department is proving themselves to be.

  55. Tim

    May 27, 2009 at 5:43 am

    Well everyone, look at the bright side, at least the money for the right to purchase the season tickets, aka Yosef Club, goes to support student athletic scholarships. You may be upset with the fact that you have to pay more money for better seats, but your money is going to support our students!

    And for those of you who are no longer "giving" to yosef, football, etc., I hear there is a cycling team on campus that would love to be able to receive your money. They will even put your company logo on their jerseys. They did this for my company and not to mention, they win NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIPS! I am constantly amazed that a group of students can pay their own way to compete and then they go out there and win! I can't wait for this team to go varsity.

  56. jonmac

    May 27, 2009 at 5:52 am

    Madapp, I may be confused, but it seems to me that, yes, you did purchase the seat but you must also purchase the ticket to be able to use the seat. It think it is very naive to think that you would never have to pay more than you paid in the '70s to use that seat. And with your car analogy it's more like the car was bought but the fee to drive it on the highway(registration) has increased. Essentially what you bought was a PSL for that seat, but, as you said, I may be confused, I'm just going by your earlier post explaining the gold seat purchase. You still have to pay the going rate to sit in it. And that rate is subject to change every year. If I had bought a PSL in Charlotte I would still have to buy the ticket to use the seat.

  57. madapp

    May 27, 2009 at 5:56 am

    Yes you are still confused jonmac….the deal that was made was you buy the seats and continue to pay the regular season ticket price. The season ticket prices have gone up through the years and I have paid the new prices….now Prince Cobb has decided that these seats I have purchased are "Premium Seats" and I have to pay "Double" the "Normal" season ticket price to keep what I have already paid for and make at least 5 times the minimum contribution to the Yosef club.

  58. Joe

    May 27, 2009 at 6:00 am

    Naysayer,

    Yes, athletics loses money every year, but the university as a whole, neither loses or gains.. it is a non-profit organization. Athletics is part of the University.

    Athletics is a part of giving back to the community, to the alumni, etc with entertainment. Not to mention gives athletes a chance to earn an education they might not have the opportunity to achieve.

    It is the way the world works — again, supply and demand. Maybe if Naysayer would have taken those lousy, easy business classes, he may understand this..

    The more something is in demand, especially something with limited supply (i.e. seats), the more it is going to cost.

    Again, going with my coke analogy – used to be a nickel, now its $1+.. seats used to be $1000, now they are more..

  59. BeauFoster

    May 27, 2009 at 6:01 am

    So you think every seat in the stadium should sell for the same price?

  60. Joe

    May 27, 2009 at 6:02 am

    Madapp, that doesnt seem like he is confused at all.. it sounds exactly like what he is explaining.

    You have premium seats, you must pay the "regular season ticket price" for those premium seats..

    SUPPLY AND DEMAND — really simple; not that hard to understand

  61. madapp

    May 27, 2009 at 6:07 am

    Hey Joe…your comparison in this case is flawed. If you agree to sell the rights of a particular flavor of soft drink (in this case gold seats)for a significant amount of money for the rights and going forward they only have to pay the market price of other soft drinks you are violating the agreement if you change the terms at a later date. This is not ethical business practices to violate the original agreement.

  62. madapp

    May 27, 2009 at 6:09 am

    Joe, supply and demand has nothing to do with an agreement to sell seats for $500 each in order to keep those seats for the regular season ticket price.

  63. BeauFoster

    May 27, 2009 at 6:09 am

    Did the contract state that the price of the seat would remain fixed throughout the entire period of "ownership"?

  64. madapp

    May 27, 2009 at 6:13 am

    The agreement was that the season ticket prices for the gold seats would stay the same as all season tickets….this was one of their "selling" points to raise what back then was a lot of money for these gold seats.

  65. madapp

    May 27, 2009 at 6:14 am

    Yes…the agreement was for the life time of the individual owner of these seats or if he quit buying the season tickets.

  66. BeauFoster

    May 27, 2009 at 6:14 am

    Well, they aren't breaking your agreement, then. The price of a season ticket is different, depending on the location of the seat. Your's happens to be in a higher priced section.

  67. Jamey

    May 27, 2009 at 6:14 am

    The Gold Seats are way more "premium" that my East Side tickets were last year….hence the "premium" price. I hate to say it madapp, but I think they have you on this one. The agreement in the 70's likely did not address any reclassifications of seats stadium upgrades.

    Bottom line is….we all pay more because we all get more. We have more seats, more restrooms, more concessions, more national recognition, more souveneirs/merchandise, more facilities, more scoreboard, more lighting……..you get the point.

  68. madapp

    May 27, 2009 at 6:18 am

    The purchase price agreement of the gold seats insured that the buyer would "own" these seats as long as he paid the "regular" season ticket price. The "Premium" was paid "UP FRONT" when the seats were purchased.

  69. madapp

    May 27, 2009 at 6:20 am

    Fellows….look and see what a "Regular" season ticket sells for….

  70. BeauFoster

    May 27, 2009 at 6:35 am

    You never answered my question as to whether all seats in the stadium should sell for the same price.

  71. madapp

    May 27, 2009 at 6:37 am

    Hey Beau….an agreement to purchase seats and the agreement on what is to be paid for them has nothing to do with agreements made on other seats that were not purchased.

  72. Joe

    May 27, 2009 at 6:39 am

    "The agreement was that the season ticket prices for the gold seats would stay the same as all season tickets…"

    If that was the agreement, then yes, I agree they should not be changed.. However, if the agreement was you have to pay the going rate of season tickets for your seats every year to keep them, then they are not in the wrong..

    Very similar situations, but very different at the same time..

  73. madapp

    May 27, 2009 at 6:40 am

    You are correct Joe….the agreement was that they were to be priced the same as regular season tickets…..

  74. BeauFoster

    May 27, 2009 at 6:41 am

    Yes, it has plenty to do with it. How can I determine what a "regular" season ticket is worth if I don't know what the rest of the seats in the stadium is worth? If every seat is the same price, except for your's, then you have legit beef. But, if tickets are of different face value, then the "regular" price becomes whatever the value of the section.

  75. madapp

    May 27, 2009 at 6:43 am

    Hey Beau….check and see what the regular season price is and you will see they are considerably less than Premium tickets.

  76. madapp

    May 27, 2009 at 6:45 am

    I think you still don't get it Beau….we paid a lot of money up front for these seats with an agreement the season ticket prices would be based on "regular" season ticket prices.

  77. Joe

    May 27, 2009 at 6:45 am

    Regular season tickets is different than all season tickets..

    Again, two very similar situations, but very different..

    Regular season tickets is pretty vague and broad.. to me, that is saying all season tickets in that section.

    All season tickets is saying all season tickets are the same price — which is not the case

  78. BeauFoster

    May 27, 2009 at 6:45 am

    Here's an idea, post the contract that you signed on the web somewhere so we can all read it and interpret it. I'd like to know the exact wording to see.

  79. madapp

    May 27, 2009 at 6:53 am

    Hey Beau…I have some premium swamp land in Florida I think you'd absolutely love LOL!!! I'm kidding with you, but the few of us left that bought the gold seats have packed away our paper work if you go back and read the older posts and the University claims they can't find theirs. In addition the University won't give out the names of the remaining gold seat members to prevent us from getting together and putting Prince Charles in his place. A couple of us are our attics looking for the paper work. The unfortunate situation is the University is putting us in this situation to begin with. As I stated earlier, don't enter into an agreement with the University and think they will uphold their end of the bargain.

  80. BeauFoster

    May 27, 2009 at 7:02 am

    I'm not naive in the least, and it's hard to take someone seriously who does nothing but name-call. You show me the contract where it is worded as you say, I'll stand behind you. However, I'd like to verify and interpret for myself. As has been posted several times, there is a vast distinction between "regular" season ticket price as you state and what I see as a "regular" ticket price for a seat in that location.

    Heck, if I really wanted to, I could claim that all ticket prices are regular prices (i.e. no specials, coupons, or exemptions) and say that your price is the regular price for a specific location.

  81. madapp

    May 27, 2009 at 7:07 am

    Bottom line Beau, you can say what you want, just as I can…but you had nothing to do with the agreement and there's no money out of your pocket. We the original gold seat purchasers have had to pay the unfortunate price of Prince Charles and his lack of ethics. The University recognized our agreement until your buddy came along…..

  82. Mike

    May 27, 2009 at 7:26 am

    LET'S END THIS NOW!

    Was there a contract on paper about these gold seats? If not, you don't have a leg to stand on. You will certainly fall hard.

  83. Appnaysayer

    May 27, 2009 at 7:29 am

    You all can parse this all you want. It still amounts to extracting more money from all concerned and, in the process, working around an agreement with fans who were loyal when the team wasn't winning. Now that the team is winning and tickets are in demand, they are being auctioned to the highest bidder. No doubt Athletics had the purported legality of this analyzed in advance of announcing this policy. The policy may be strictly "legal." That doesn't make it right. But then, ethics and morality have never been strong suits of college athletics.

    This is just like their rationale for making folks join Yosef to keep good season seats. In the eyes of the Athletic Department, Madapp doesn't deserve his seats because he can't pay as much as others. Tough break, now go away so that we can move in the rich people.

  84. madapp

    May 27, 2009 at 7:29 am

    LOL…. OK Mike….there was a contract on these seats. I will end it now by going back to my original purpose and that is to warn loyal fans to beware of the Prince and NEVER go into an agreement with the University thinking that they will long term stand behind their word….

  85. DRM

    May 27, 2009 at 9:13 am

    "The policy may be strictly 'legal.' That doesn’t make it right." Exactly, Naysayer. Many things "legal" are not ethically "right."

    My son's athletic career prevented our attending games for a period of 10 or 12 years. As a result, we gave up our gold seats years ago, by virtue of no longer purchasing seasons tickets. Thus, my knowledge of the current gold seat situation is limited to what I've read here. Nevertheless, as one of the original gold seat "owners," my memory supports what madapp says–the original deal, as presented by those who represented the University back then, was pay for the seats up front, continue to buy seasons tickets at the "regular" price, and continue to have those tickets designated for your gold seats. There was no provision (that I recall) regarding seating classification–i. e., all seats were considered the same, illogical as that seems. As madapp states, the premium for having preferred seating was paid in advance, by helping the school pay for the physical seats.

    All that said, I don't find it particularly troubling that ASU is now employing a tiered pricing system based on seating location. That's simply market forces at work, and as I and others have already said, these are the best seats in the stadium. (An aside: At least these are the best seats when coaches' wives, who used to occupy the first row of gold seats, aren't standing and blocking the view of those seated behind–which they seemed inclined to do for the bulk of many games, especially the more competitive contests.)

    To me, what seems most unethical on ASU's part is the apparent new requirement to maintain a Yosef membership at five times minimum in order to retain gold seat ticket purchasing privileges. That wasn't, in any way, part of the original commitment between University and gold seat purchasers. On the other hand, Yosef membership is now a component of the overall access policy–again, a demand thing. Also, how is "minimum" defined by the athletic department in this context? I believe Yosef Club still offers entry level membership at less than $100. If that represents the minimum, gold seats require a Yosef contribution of $500 or less; it is likely that most, if not all, gold seat owners are contributing at or above that level, anyway.

    In the long run, actions by Cobb and the University understandably rankle some people, especially those directly affected. As Naysayer suggests, it isn't likely they changed the policy without internal legal support, so most likely the only choices available to those affected are to either pay up, or walk. I don't like how this feels from an ethical perspective–long-time loyalty, through good times and bad, isn't being rewarded, as madapp says; in fact, pretty much the opposite is occurring. But to most, probably including some who are directly affected, the matter falls more into the principle versus practicality realm–it doesn't feel right, but there's not much practical effect. And, thus far at least, count me as one who prefers Cobb to our prior athletic administration. In fact, it was the prior assistant AD that made me a really "mad app," on more than one occasion.

  86. Tim

    May 27, 2009 at 9:42 am

    and again, DRM, as you just stated, this money goes to Yosef Club (scholarship support for student athletes). I don't see any problem with this money going to help OUR students.

  87. BeauFoster

    May 27, 2009 at 10:29 am

    DRM, that's about as good as it can be put. I wish I had the same eloquence as you.

  88. Appnaysayer

    May 27, 2009 at 10:52 am

    Again, DRM, I agree with everything you say. Must be age sneaking up on me!

    One thing I wonder about though: when madapp refers to 5X the minimum, my understanding is that gold seats now require a $2500 contribution to Yosef + the ticket cost. Am I wrong about that? The minimum to have season tix with any seating priority is $500. You can give any amount to Yosef, even a buck if you want, but it doesn't get you anything– which again takes us back to whether it's actually a contribution or a sale and yada yada yada.

    As for preference for one AD over another, I don't have strong feelings either way. I've been around ASU in one capacity or another for a long time and from what I can tell, Athletics has always operated pretty much like the NCDOT– as its own little entity which is responsible to no one except perhaps the chancellor and BOT and even that supervision is pretty loose, particularly when the football team is winning.

    And I, too, bow to your eloquence.

  89. Jamey

    May 27, 2009 at 11:14 am

    I'll pay for your seats if you make them stop playing that GOD AWFUL entrance music.

    Sorry, had to break up all the tension and put the focus back on something we can ALL agree on. That song BITES!

  90. Mike

    May 27, 2009 at 12:05 pm

    post a link to the entrance song. I'm not sure which song you are talking about.

  91. JT

    May 27, 2009 at 12:20 pm

    I don't think the athletic department is doing anything illegal here, but it isn't exactly justifiable. I doubt there are more than 50 or so people in the gold seats that had this agreement with the school. It just doesn't seem like the risk of running off some of your most loyal followers is worth the dollar gain in this situation.

    On the other hand it would be hard to require the guy sitting next to one of these fans to ante up $2,500 plus a premium ticket price for basically the same seat.

    We all knew there would be growing pains with all of the expansion and enhanced excitement, but there are some battles the school doesn't need to fight.

  92. DRM

    May 27, 2009 at 12:23 pm

    Naysayer, you may well be correct about the base to which the five times factor is applied. It's been so long since our days in the gold seats that I honestly don't have a clue.

    It wouldn't really make sense that ASU would set the true minimum membership as the base, though; the $500 level you mention seems much more likely. And five times that figure would make madapp's financial hit much more noticeable.

    To both you and Beau, I appreciate your kind comments.

  93. Jamey

    May 27, 2009 at 12:37 pm

    I'm sorry Mike, I cannot knowlingly subject anyone to the pain that is involved with listening to our "Rap" entrance song. It burns my ears when I hear it and then I feel a strong desire to punch small children and torture kittens.

  94. clayton

    May 27, 2009 at 1:46 pm

    That's a good commercial.

  95. clayton

    May 27, 2009 at 1:47 pm

    Jamey would torture kittens and madapp, no idea where you are on the FCS/FBS argument, but if you prefer the latter, I will remember this discussion.

  96. Appnaysayer

    May 27, 2009 at 2:12 pm

    I still wish DRM would stop being the voice of reason here. It makes it harder to rant. Back to a question I posed earlier. Anyone on the board know the financial status of the stadium renovation, whether it is in fact in the red, for how much, etc.

    Re: Rap. I figure it's okay because it let my generation off the hook. It kept disco from being the worst music ever.

  97. clayton

    May 27, 2009 at 3:58 pm

    DRM is a Claytonist.

  98. Jamey

    May 28, 2009 at 5:21 am

    Clayton— I love the playoffs. I vote we boycott the FBS until they are smart enough to start doing things our way and crown a REAL national champion. I think I much more enjoy getting 3-4 good playoff games each year over driving the some small town in Arizona for the GirlsWhoDressLikeGorillasAndEatBananasOnlineWhileSingingTheThemeFromTheLoveBoat.com Bowl.

  99. DRM

    May 28, 2009 at 5:43 am

    Correct. And I have my own little band of Claytonistas. We're presently planning to overthrow the government of a small Central American country–just haven't decided which one yet. Once we succeed in that mission, we're going to make soccer the official sport of NCAA FCS–except we'll call it futbol. Oh, and our mascot is a bear.

  100. JT

    May 28, 2009 at 5:45 am

    Naysayer:

    I don't know the exact figures but from what I understand the pressbox/fieldhouse itself is coasting us nearly $50 Mil. The whole project (baseball, soccer, Varisty, new seats, softball, indoor facility, and pressbox) was only supposed to cost $50 Million. That would put us up to $60 Million at the very least.

  101. Appnaysayer

    May 28, 2009 at 5:57 am

    "Oh, and our mascot is a bear."

    Is your leader "a good Division II coach?"

    60 mill is a chunk of change, even in the university/state setting.

  102. AB

    May 28, 2009 at 6:10 am

    The min. donation related to season tickets is 250. I thought gold seat donations were 1500 not 2500. Club seats require a 2500 donation.

  103. DRM

    May 28, 2009 at 7:03 am

    No. But neither is he an alum of UNC.

  104. DRM

    May 28, 2009 at 8:05 am

    Speaking of the FCS/FBS argument (as Clayton did above)–and in the vein of analysis that is probably at least as meaningless as most that we post here–by my count, 51 of the 83 players presently listed on our roster are from NC. Nine each are from SC and GA. That's 83 percent of our players from the Carolinas and Georgia. (Four are from TN, two each from VA and FL, and we have one player from each of six other states–most of which aren't exactly known as hotbeds of high school football.)

    In addition to all the other monetary issues involved with moving to FBS, we would probably have to expand our recruiting territory and budget the related increase in recruiting costs. Competing with five other in-state FBS schools (plus several programs in surrounding states) for FBS-caliber NC, SC, and GA players probably wouldn't get the job done in terms of elevating our talent pool enough to compete effectively against most FBS teams.

  105. clayton

    May 28, 2009 at 8:15 am

    That's not change I can believe in.

  106. JC

    May 28, 2009 at 8:30 am

    Jamey….. are you actually going to come to the playoff games this year?… we missed you and the wifie

  107. JT

    May 28, 2009 at 9:23 am

    "Jamey….. are you actually going to come to the playoff games this year?… we missed you and the wifie

    Comment by JC 05.28.09 @ 12:30 pm"

    Wait a minute… I thought the playoffs are the best thing on earth??? Why would anyone go to all those regular season games and not go to the pinnacle of college football- The FCS Playoffs?

    Not aimed at you JC just a general question.

  108. JC

    May 28, 2009 at 9:40 am

    I think there was some scheduling conflicts…. we have outlawed wedding births and other nonsense during football season…. unless your getting divorced and returning a gift don't plan events on game day… september through december…

  109. Jamey

    May 28, 2009 at 10:39 am

    I believe I know this JC and spent my freshman year terrorizing hallmates in Cannon with him. Good day Sir.

    This year's playoffs should be much more enjoyable as long as there are no impending layoffs to plan for as was the case in 2008. The wife starts working again Monday so that 2nd stream of income frees up some Mountaineer Money for this guy.

  110. Jamey

    May 28, 2009 at 10:40 am

    Plus someone had to be the loud jerk in downtown Charlotte every Saturday screaming about how Chuck Norris fears Armanti Edwards.

  111. Appnaysayer

    May 28, 2009 at 10:48 am

    I'll stand corrected on the min. Yosef contribution for season tix. They wanted 500 from me to keep my seats, but that might be due to where they're located (not mid-field, but not bad). 1500 divided by 5 might mean that madapp originally paid 300, still a hit if it goes to 1500.

    I think it would have been better for public relations to "grandfather in" some of the old-timers and long-time supporters. My guess is that there aren't that many of us anyway. But as noted, this is technically not illegal and the "rightness" of it doesn't seem to be Athletics' primary concern.

  112. JC

    May 28, 2009 at 10:59 am

    good day goat….. wifie has let you off the truck eeeeaaa…. put up your dukes chuck norris….

  113. Jamey

    May 28, 2009 at 11:32 am

    If my job paid me for every time I posted on this site in a day, I would be retired by now.

    Though I think Naysayer and Clayton would be ruling the world from their Gold-Plated castles.

  114. Appnaysayer

    May 28, 2009 at 11:46 am

    My castle is platinum.

  115. DRM

    May 28, 2009 at 11:49 am

    A "grandfathering" clause would have been the appropriate way to go, in my opinion. As someone already mentioned, there probably aren't too many original or early gold seat purchasers left. Leaving pricing for those people as agreed way back when wouldn't have cost the program much, or for very long.

  116. JC

    May 28, 2009 at 11:58 am

    DRM I Do agree.. unfortunatly im not sure they look at it as what is lost but what is to gain. if by chnace the long time faithful choose not to keep up with the pricing increases there is some one to replace them that will… I as much as anyone have no love lost for the changes.. when you break down what it cost to maintain the 6 tickets our family has had for 25 years plus continue to pay to enjoy parking/tailgating in the stadium lot it makes saturday's pretty expensive.. $540 a game to be exact… just for the regular season… but i wouldn't trade it for the world.. the facility is changing… we have a first class program that excells in every way.. you can't expect things not to change… just like in most elite clubs think of it as an assesment.. being three time national champions, defending socon champs, we are in a pretty elite group…

  117. clayton

    May 28, 2009 at 1:30 pm

    Socialist naysayer would spread his post wealth around.

  118. DRM

    May 29, 2009 at 1:07 pm

    You're probably correct regarding the perspective, JC. As I said above, it's all market driven.

    I've noticed that drawings of the completed renovation seem to indicate gold (colored) seats all the way across the top eight or ten rows of the west stands. The original and presently existing gold seats only span the middle section–roughly 20 yards, between the 40s. If the drawings are accurate, and if the intent is to price all those seats as "gold," then the program should receive a nice little boost in revenue from that marketing move alone. As you say, there is certainly demand at present; if/when we have a few down years in a row, demand may not be as strong.

  119. madapp

    May 30, 2009 at 9:32 am

    Now that the dust has settled….I would like to thank DRM and Appnaysayer…two true gentlemen that understand what principles and committment truely are…..

  120. JC

    June 1, 2009 at 8:27 am

    DRM,

    I agree quite a boost… always onder if the attendace will drop with the wagoneers… Sucess brings problems just as defeat

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