What economy? – “The N.C. General Assembly passed a bill last week that allows the school to borrow $40 million for the construction of a new 15,000-seat football stadium, field house and practice fields to house the Charlotte 49ers’ new football program, scheduled to start play in fall 2013.”
State digging deep for 49ers 91 comments - (Comments are closed) |
|
|
|
Copyright © 2006 - 2013 AppFan.com™ - All Rights Reserved Web Hosting provided by Streamline SEO |
||
Don't pay teachers, but please, by all means, put us further in the red to give a commuter school a football program. Nay really needs to lift that self-imposed ban for this one.
What in the sam hell are we doing? It is time to fire everyone who holds an office. I am getting sick of this crap.
It allows UNCC to borrow money. The state hasn't given them any money for this.
In February, the University of North Carolina Board of Governors unanimously approved the proposed funding plan, which includes a combination of increased student fees and private support to repay the $40 million loan.
Read more: http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2010/07/17/15677…
Does anyone think UNCC will stick around in FCS for more than 4 years? I see them running out the door before 4 years is up.
asu7…..they would need an invitation to move up…..that will be hard to get when they win 2 games a year for the first 4 years
This could possibly hurt our recruiting as we get some guys around Charlotte/SC areas.
I think they will do better than that. Besides that it is not about how many games you win. Their bball team is somewhat successful. I see them getting an invite to CUSA after 2 years.
I would like for them to stick around so we can play them but I doubt that happens.
Sorry, I should've been more clear with the "we" portion. I was referring to UNCC specifically, not the state. Now if they've haven't cut any academic jobs, then I'll stand corrected and they can do what they please, however, I doubt very seriously that's the case.
My guess is that they see football as a way to gain access in to a better conference than they are currently. I don't think Charlotte is happy in the A-10. My guess is they would prefer C-USA or the Big East. They may see football as a leverage point.
Weren't the in CUSA before?
Yep they were. That is why I think the addition of football is not win games but to gain access. Hence they will not be FCS long.
This will hurt ASU's recruiting once they move up. I bet they promise this to recruits as well.
The big advantage UNCC has over ASU in trying to move up is the Charlotte TV market. Which is the one thing I believe that's been holding ECU back from getting an invite to the Big East. Greenville is not a booming TV market, much to the dismay of their fanbase.
Just what everyone want to see…Charlotte Community College playing football on TV.
Here (meaning App) we have a storied university with outstanding academics and a great football program. If the state cannot embrace our moving to FBS, but can roll the dice on a complete unknown like Charlotte Community College, something is really wrong.
Besides, none of the real movers and shakers in Charlotte went to CCC anyway. Many went to App.
So are the state's economic issues all that are keeping us from moving up? Has the administration said they wanted to move up?
I am thinking I might have missed something along the way.
It's not the state's fault but our administration's fault that we are not FBS yet. They have had a small school mentality for years. No vision. No guts.
UNCC will move to CUSA ASAP, probably right away. UNCC was founding members of both CUSA and the SunBelt Conferences. They don't waste their time staying in the FCS SoCon for forty years.
Then they will head for the BigEast conference. All of their contacts with A-10 and BE members playing basketball for years will help them in that. That might keep ECU from getting into the Beast.
Someone in our administration, Peacock & Cobb, need to get really active and do their job of keeping our interests as their top priority and get us into CUSA right away.
I’m not going to stand for this. I’ve heard your cries. Felt your pain. It’s time for me to make something big happen. Go ahead and mark your calendars, we’re moving up in 2013. You’ll see. We’ll show them we’re not a bunch of hillbillies.
Maybe Peacock and Cobb are doing their jobs well right now. Maybe the fact that we are a great university at an affordable price means something.
Being in CUSA does nothing for ASU. That's not in our best interest. How many CUSA games of any sport has anyone on this blog watched in the last year (and App vs ECU doesn't count)?
I think the correct question would be not how many of us watch CUSA sports but about how many other folks watch CUSA sports.
We are all going to watch mostly SOCON because that is where we are now. If we were in CUSA we would all be watching CUSA sports.
The question is how many people in the Eastern United States watch SOCON sports compared to CUSA sports?
Why hasn't there been any talk of inviting UNCC to the SoCon?
After all, some posters here are so small-school phobic that I think they would welcome UNCC with open arms. Heck, while we're at it, how about Winthrop and Coastal?
Nobody cares about CUSA. Its a dull conference. The only time they have good ratings is when they play an out of conference school that people actually care about.
patrick, people affiliated with C-USA teams care about C-USA and I would venture to say that that's more people than care about the SoCon. That's where your argument is weak. C-USA plays on ESPN and ESPN2 while the SoCon is relegated to regional networks except when we play an FCS team or go deep into the playoffs. How do we know it's not in our best interest? What is our best interest? I agree with those who argue that there would be too much travel in C-USA as it currently exists but that's the only thing I see that would make it not be in our best interest. And what are the ratings like when a SoCon game is on SportSouth, I know I'm not watching since I'm not in that region.
CUSA plays on ESPN and ESPN2 on weeknights.
That weeknight deal is a big issue that isn't mentioned much around here.
CUSA is burning up the airwaves on the prime networks on Saturdays, right?? And millions of people watch, right??
I don't think that's the case. No one is going to turn on the tube for SMU, or Tulane, or UAB, or anyone else in that conference. If that is where App would be headed….thanks but no thanks.
And that's assuming we even received an invite at some point in the future. Come on, how unbelievably boring would life be in CUSA? We would be a nobody with no chance at winning the national title.
This is something I haven't checked, but I would be interested to see how many of the CUSA teams have had more nationally televised football games than we have over the last 5 years. If jonmac is correct then all of those CUSA teams must have been on ESPN more often than us.
clayton, I have mentioned it several times but midwest and others assured me we would not play on week nights in empty stadiums like CUSA and the MAC b/c alumni would flock to boone after work because they have vision.
All I am saying is there are probably more CUSA viewers than people tuning into SOCON Saturday.
Not saying that is a reason to bolt but just saying.
Patric, I think you are making good points but you need to realize that there are lots of folks who do care about CUSA as there are some folks who care about SOCON. I would be willing to bet there are a few folks who watch Sunbelt games. The people who have connections to those Universities do care. I personally do not watch CUSA games because I am watching APP. If we were in the CUSA I would watch them though. What you watch depends on where you are at and where your team is at. If we were in the ACC, I would watch the ACC.
Now if you want to compare viewers or exposure then I am willing to bet that more people do and would be willing to watch a CUSA matchup over a SOCON matchup.
"All I am saying is there are probably more CUSA viewers than people tuning into SOCON Saturday."
There is no arguing that asu7. By default, they have more, and larger, schools. It is natural that they have more people watching. I would be skeptical that they have tons of non-CUSA fans watching their games, other than those tuning in because it's Tuesday night and Deadliest Catch is in re-runs.
"Why hasn’t there been any talk of inviting UNCC to the SoCon?"
Early in the UNCC football discussion their administration made it quite clear they have no interest in the SoCon. I believe they will make a push for CAA membership.
"Come on, how unbelievably boring would life be in CUSA? We would be a nobody with no chance at winning the national title."
How much more boring can it get than winning 84% of your conference games over the past 10 years? Do actually enjoy beating up on schools with enrollments of 1400, 2100, 2600, and 4500, & 5,600 students? Boy that sure is some kinda goooood fun! I think some of you anti FBS people are simply afraid to fail and won't be able to thump your chest and act like some bad azz if we should -heaven forbid – loose once in a while. What is truly boring is not taking chances in life. You might get you knee skinned from time to time, but you never get to experience real joy either. Never understood what is so wonderful about existing in a world where you have all the advantages and are pretty much guaranteed to win. That doesn't build character, it builds ego maniacs.
Never understood what is so wonderful about existing in a world where you have all the advantages and are pretty much guaranteed to win. That doesn’t build character, it builds ego maniacs.
So you're anti-BCS then, right?
I wonder how boring it was for Florida State to win 100% of their conference games in the ACC for a number of years ?
I think if we have to go FBS because we have to strive for something greater then we should strive for something greater. I don't see CUSA as anything greater.
Will it be great when the season starts and we can actually talk football instead of all this crap. We are actually starting to sound like congress.
Conference USA's television agreement is with CBS College Sports. East Carolina has an independent deal with ESPN to televise its marquee game(s) … i.e. the Virginia Tech game.
Dan, Hardly. Unlike FCS at least in the FBS all schools are REQUIRED to maintain a certain number of scholarships.
bcoach, FSU was playing at the highest level possible against programs with an equal number of scholarships and financial support. The same can not be said for ASU, the SoCon, or FCS football in general.
FBS schools routinely play at least 1 school every year that fields a team with less scholarships. In fact, it's out of the ordinary for an FBS team to have a schedule devoid of those match ups these days.
How many teams do we play that don't field the full FCS allotment of scholarships? Jacksonville?
Midwest is a dumb prick. Nobody that stupid could have gone to App. Charlotte Community College? Calling us hillbillies in many posts? He has yet to tell us how to pay our current bills. Like I said, he is too stupid to have matriculated at App.
I like Deadlist Catch on Tuesday nights. I do not like App football on Tuesday nights.
How many Saturday games are we willing to sell along with our soul for Conference USA?
It's pretty simple. Either you want App to be a NATIONAL university or a regional college. I happen to think we can do better than where we are now because we are heading down the road to the status quo.
Let's see, considering no one outside of the SoCon gives a rat's ass about the SoCon, I think we'd be much better off in CUSA. Playing ECU on a Thursday night in Boone is slightly more more of a headliner than playing Jville, Presbyterian, Samford, Citadel, Wofford, Furman, Central, etc. in Boone.
You see, we're not longer a teaching college. I'm sick of this honky tonk, hillbilly, myopic mindset you guys have.
Yes, I stand by my statement about Charlotte Community College (CCC not UNCC). Calling me a dumb prick, Private, only makes my case even better.
Maybe you guys should think ahead. The CUSA we know right now is not the CUSA that will exist in five years. We cannot, and will not, wait five years to see what happens.
We will be the leaders that others will follow. That's right, we're App F-ing State, and it's time for people to witness just how great we are (and can be).
I've always said we will play FBS in 2013 (not tomorrow). If you don't think we will be ready for a move and a change by then, you're insane.
I for one do not think we have built what we have built to stay where we are. It just does not make sense.
I just don't think this administration is wanting to move without proof. All we have heard is that everyone is happy right where we are. Now a couple of us seem to know otherwise. What is this information that I have missed and where did it come from?
"How many teams do we play that don’t field the full FCS allotment of scholarships? Jacksonville?"
Dan- JU, NCCU, Samford, and Wofford all have less than 63. I was told a few years ago that Furman and Elon had less than 63. I don't know where either of those schools stands today, but considering the cost of tuition it wouldn't shcok me if they had less today. Don't forget that UTC and GSU are both short on scholarships thanks to APR violations for several more years. Add it all up and we are playing as many as 8 teams with less than 63 scholarships on the sideline. Yes sir we are really playing the best competition out there!!!
This is not a put down or a joke.
If Florida State wanted to play at the highest level why on earth did they join the ACC ? I am being serious. I love ACC basketball but to try and say that the ACC has any ability in football is truly a stretch. They came into a conference they could dominate and they loved it.
So Jacksonville, Central, Wofford and Samford.
Wofford has been fairly competitive regardless of those limitations, technically winning the Conference in 2007 (ditto for Elon, though no conference title despite premature banners). JU and NCCU are obviously weaker programs, however, this year, I think, is an aberration in having two "cupcakes" scheduled (see: Montana series starting next year).
UTC and GSU shouldn't count because losing scholarships as a result of rules violations isn't the same thing as choosing to compete with less (does the Pac 19 get dinged because of USC?).
So all this considered, we're looking at a schedule with three historically weak teams, two schools operating short because of violations and three that still manage to compete at our level despite fewer scholarships.
Compare that to UF's (FU's) schedule last year where they played 3 cupcake games against significantly weaker teams (read: less resources than FU has) and this year with 1 game against the FCS and 1 against an over-matched MAC team. The only FBS schools that have come close to playing "the best out there" on a consistent basis the past couple of years have been USC and Oklahoma.
They also had an abysmal basketball program that they wanted to improve. How many years did they spend being the whipping boys of the conference in Bball?
Weren't they really good in the early 90's for a few years? Charlie Ward?
They were decent enough to make three appearances in the late eighties to 1991 prior to admission to the ACC.
But reading this, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metro_Conference it appears it may have more been due to becoming part of a weaker conference.
And I had no idea the SEC doesn't support Men's Soccer.
At least Florida State was playing in a conference with other major schools (except Duke and Wake).
The reality is that Vandy should join the ACC and FSU should join the SEC. FSU probably is in the ACC for similar reasons that Ga Tech and UGA are in different conferences.
App being in the SoCon would be like Florida State playing in the Sun Belt. It's simply not the right fit. If for no other reason, consider enrollments, record, and facilities:
Wofford= 1,197
Furman=3,221
Citadel= 3,386
Samford= 4,507
Elon= 4,956
Nooga= 8,656
Western= 8,665
App= 16k
GSU=16k
Please justify how the hell we fit into this confernce.
Midwest, I don't have a "honky tonk, hillbilly, myopic mindset." I am realistic. I enjoy watching my team succeed, and whatever league we would potentially join at the next level would be no more exciting to me than where we currently are. So in my opinion, based on what I enjoy, I would rather us stay at our current level and succeed rather than spend millions more to move up to an equally boring level and not succeed as consistently.
You are worse than naysayer man. We are not insane or hillbillies if our opinions are different than yours….but then again, we can't see the future in our visions like you can. We are going to lead the way, right? I have an idea….let's start a conference and ask UF, Texas, Ohio St, USC, and a few others to join. Let's lead the way to glory!!! We are "App F-ing State, and it’s time for people to witness just how great we are…"
And Appman, I don't beat my chest, and I don't run down the halls at work talking up App St. I work with people who went to Florida, and Georgia, and FSU, and Penn St. What on earth am I gonna brag about to them?? I believe you and midwest are the ones whose arrogance is probably getting the better of you. You are the ones who say we are so much better than everybody else at our level.
midwest, maybe all of college football fits into your vision. Perhaps you could reach out to the heads of all the BCS level conferences and organize an appropriate realignment on a national scale. You could let Vandy know they don't belong in the SEC. And you could let FSU know they don't belong in the ACC. And you can just go ahead and rearrange the entire landscape. Your vision is such that it should only take you a couple hours to have this done. I will turn to ESPN soon to look for the news. Congrats!!
Patrick,
Since you like winning regardless of how weak the competition, why don't we assemble a team of 40-year old men to form a Pop Warner football team? Could we play in the 10-12 yr old league or would that be too tough for you? If so, there's a 7-9 league. Boy, I can't wait to win the championship trophy!!
Do you honestly think we are that much better than everyone else at our level? We had the greatest player in the history of our school and yet we still didn't even make it to the championship game the last two seasons. Where was App football 5 years ago? Were we dominating the SOCON back then? Let's give it some time and see if we have actually outgrown where we are. I am not opposed to a different conference at our own level. I would welcome that. But I just don't see us moving up right now to be a good thing for our university's well being.
And by the way, arguing with you is like arguing with the pop warner kids you mentioned above (you representing the kids of course). Not everyone on here agrees with you. I'm not scare of competition, I just like doing the smart thing for my university.
Midwest
Here you go back on the size of the student body. Well there are only 11 guys on the field at a time. I know how about facilities. Well lets pick the smallest. Have you been in their locker room or training room? I have and it is NFL level and was that way 10 years ago. In this case size does not matter money does.
Dan-
I like how you start to change your tune once the facts are given. You said FBS teams (FSU specifically) play one team a year with less scholarships so they did not play against top competition all year. I showed that we play many teams with less scholarships to prove that we play a much less competitive schedule. Now you want to start justifying the teams we play, and put down the teams they play. Face the facts Dan, most of our schedule is made up of average teams with much less talent than even the lowest of the FBS conferences.
I think the reason many of the SoCon teams are competitive with us is because our players and coaches know we have an advantage over all of them, and it is extremely hard to fully motivate yourself each week when you know you should win. IMO Montana is the only FCS team in the past 5 years that was truely better than us when we lost to them. All of the other loses are because we didn't play our best or we had key injuries. Thats not the case with FSU or any of the other teams in those conferences. Comptetition is better all around.
Just admit that you like FCS and you prefer the comfort of staying in the SoCon instead of taking a chance to improve ourselves.
UCF has the largest undergraduate enrollment in the US, so it really doesn't help the fit due to size argument either.
And the smallest ACC school has fielded a dominant football team in recent seasons.
that would be within the conference.
Waco Kid, I just don't believe that we improve ourselves by moving to a level where we will have slightly more exposure (at the most) and play teams that I (and most Americans in general) don't care much more about than the ones we already play. To me, that's not a chance that we should take.
But hey, I'm not in charge. If the powers that be decide to let midwest and his grand marketing scheme take control and we make the move then so be it. I am simply saying I don't believe its in our best interest. But I am just one App fan (pun intended).
Wait, how did I change my tune there, you lost me? I asked a legitimate question, which you answered, so then I offered some additional analysis. I never implied the SoCon was the greatest competition in the world, and all I pointed out is that most FBS teams do not always play "the best competition" (look at UNC and their standard 2 FCS team schedules).
I've said on multiple occasions I would be Ok with a move to the CAA, it is certainly a more competitive conference right now. I like that the FCS offers a national championship, unlike CUSA or the Sun Belt. I also like that it doesn't cost our school twice as much as it does to play at this level.
We could compete for a Sun Belt title very soon, and probably around 4th in CUSA (once we get enough recruits to secure some quality depth). Does that make it worth the added expense? My opinion is no. Yours is obviously different, but neither one of us is "right".
Also, none of this 'visionary' discussion addresses our impending coaching change. We are not guaranteed dominance over the FCS after Coach Moore retires.
As I've said before, I think we have a lot of bandwagon fans and that if we were to move up and suffer some losing seasons (which is a very real possibility), support for the program (both in attendance and financial contributions) would wane and put us in an even bigger hole.
This debate seems endless. I do wish we had some indication of what our plans are. Of course, it is very likely that there is no consensus among the decision makers.
Some argue that we wouldn't have built the facilities we now have if we weren't contemplating a move. Perhaps, but I believe that was just being proactive in the event we are in a position to move someday. I don't believe the new facilities mean a move is imminent.
Well stated Dan.
And yes hapapp, this does seem to be an endless debate doesn't it? I think we can all agree on that at least (except for midwest, who would argue that it's not technically a debate since in his flash forward we were playing Texas in the 2013 BCS championship game).
If we are so broke why spend all this money to build the facilities we have if we are staying put. That would have been a huge waste of money. Now if we did it to get an edge on recruiting then that makes sense but is that worth the cost burden we now have?
If we are staying put we have been making some bad decisions with our money.
If we are staying put it is time to join the CAA and have a super conference.
Super conference would not work because the best teams would be stacked in one confernce. The CUSA (or rebranded name) will eventually include the best members of the CAA anyway. Let's try being the leader and watch others follow.
Golfers generally play up to their ability when they are playing better competition than when they play with a 30 handicapper. That is what is happening with us right now. We have nowhere else to go but down as long as we play down to the dogs of the Socon.
Maybe the Army had it right…be all that you can be.
So the other schools in the SOCON have 30 handicappers on their golf teams?
What are we going to do if Wofford moved to the FBS?
Dan- I agree that the CAA is the best conference in FCS, and I think joining the CAA-South with a few other top SoCon teams would be an improvment. That of course is IF we have no desire to move up. I just think ASU can do much better than the SoCon and FCS. The Sun Belt and current CUSA are not my ideal conferences, but I'm willing to go there in order to position for a better situation in the future. A revamped CUSA East would be ideal to me.
"I just don’t believe that we improve ourselves by moving to a level where we will have slightly more exposure (at the most) and play teams that I (and most Americans in general) don’t care much more about than the ones we already play."
Are we beginning to make a little headway here? Most FCS'ers care passionately about what the rest of the nation thinks of ASU. There is no greater indication than the obsession with winning national championships, being ranked, and having players on All American teams. Personally I don't care what people on the left coast, in Texas, or in Ohio think about ASU. I do care how my neighbors and people in this region perceive my school. I simply want to ASU play programs at a level and with the commitment to football commensurate with ours. It is obvious the OVERWHELMING majority of FCS programs can't sniff ASU in terms of facilities, commitment, and support. Only two or three programs nationally come close to participating at the same level. Comments made by GSU fans which made the trip to Boone last year can for the most part be summarized by; Appalachian has left us and everyone else on this level in the dust. One needs look no further than GSU as an excellent example of what happens to a program that rests on its laurels. They were once the undisputed kingpins of the division, but became satisfied with the status quo and rested on those six flags flying at their stadium. Now look at their program. If you aren’t moving forward, you are moving backward. It is as simple as that.
Clayton, NO chance Wofford goes FBS. Heck, if it wasn't for Jerry Richardson they would still be D-II. I bet you don't know Wofford petitioned the SoCon about having scholarships limited to a particular amount of money spent? They reasoned ASU and the other public schools have an unfair advantage due to the costs of attending a private school and they were forced to spend a lot more resources on scholarships which took away from their program. This is just one reason why I have such a distaste for the private school in this league. If you had sat in on conference meetings and seen the attitudes up close and personal, as I have, you would probably see it that way as well.
I hate to continue pointing this out, but I think clayton was being sarcastic.
I think the obsession with national publicity is much more descriptive of the FBSer's than FCSer's. That is why they are willing to sell Saturday games for Tuesday night football on ESPN with the misguided belief that it will give us better exposure or publicity.
I like national titles because, to me anyway, they mean something. The .com bowl doesn't mean anything (to me or most people except fans of the teams that played in it). Granted we may have to sit through a less than stout regular season schedule some years, but I think the excitement of the playoffs offset that loss, again, at least for me.
What exactly does a national title mean when there are really only a few contenders every year? We deliberately schedule easy non-conference teams (or we do not join a better conference) because we are playing for a top playoff seed. We are, in essence, stacking the deck.
It also makes no sense to join the CAA because all the good teams would be in one conference. We have no other choice but to move up.
A national title means you are national champions. Unless you are in the FBS and it means some writers and computers think you are national champions. Boise St. Utah. Auburn. Ball St.
I will not deny the fact that FBS is flawed, but there are also issues with FCS…like stacking your schedule with easy competitors just so you land a higher seed in the playoffs.
Hmmm…I guess no one really cared much about the Bama-Texas game did they? They sure did tune into that Nova-Montana game. Millions vs. 10,000. Enough said.
I was being sarcastic. But, I had a point. Many of us don't think that schools like Wofford belong in FCS football. We think they're too small and don't maintain the same commitment to football.
Well, that's exactly what Florida, Bama, Texas, etc think about Troy, MTSU, even Boise.
So, I really think the rules for FBS and FCS will change. If they don't, we will see a slow progression towards the FBS. Maybe we won't be first to go but, after Montana or Delaware, we may begin to consider a move. Then, when Georgia Southern, Georgia State, UNCC, and Southern Illinois take the plunge, we could go as well. With App and GaSo gone, Furman would rule the SoCon but, begin to get itchy themselves. They petition the NCAA for the opportunity to move with other strong private school football teams, like Richmond and Villanova. Eventually, Wofford looks at their conference schedule with Davidson, Campbell, and Guilford College. They realize they've outgrown the SoCon and try a move.
Obviously, that's over the top. But, how about somebody bug the NCAA to see how they feel before we book our tickets to the facebook.com bowl.
"I will not deny the fact that FBS is flawed, but there are also issues with FCS…like stacking your schedule with easy competitors just so you land a higher seed in the playoffs."
FBS teams routinely stack their OOC schedules with tasty cream-puffs just as much, if not more, than any top FCS team. Playing a quality schedule is no way to make it to a BCS bowl, just as Oklahoma last year. No doubt they didn't win as many games as the likes of Florida, but they sure as hell tried to challenge themselves, and that type of behavior is abhorred at that level. Stewart Mandel, I believe, wrote an article last year about how the BCS kills the regular season because we don't get very many marquee OOC match ups in FBS any more.
Dan, Clayton is the king of sarcasm. I simply used the occasion to make a point about the Ankle Biters. While I may not agree with your position on FCS / FBS I appreciate your point of view. Dan do you think, outside the diehard FCS community, a FCS national championship means anything to anyone outside the teams and fans playing in it? Like any sport schools will take advantage of the rules to make life as easy as possible. I believe the problem is with the NCAA.
Gwaltineer, I have yet to read anyone advocating swapping Saturday games for Tuesday nights. I understand CUSA does some crazy things to get exposure, but that doesn't mean anyone is pushing for it. Sometimes you have to take the good with the bad. Personally, I'd take the trade off of better competition and basketball upgrade for a game every now and then on a weekday night. I have some good friends who are ECU fans and it hasn't seemed to hurt them too much. I don't see how you make the argument FBS supporters are more concerned with national exposure. We understand most of the rankings; national stat leaders, AA teams, and national championships will go away. The FCS crowd clings to and bases their entire argument on those things.
Clatyon we've found some common ground. I have long advocated for a third sub-division in D-I. There is no question the BCS conferences are in a league of their own. But I disagree they don't like the mid-majors simply because they need games for a break from the war. While those schools do not have the funding of the BCS schools at least they are required to carry a minimum number of scholarships. At least they have made an institutional commitment to playing at a relatively high level. That does not exist across the FCS landscape and as has been pointed out, not even within conferences.
Appman, I can't say that I think that, but again, this is more so about personal preference and to me a National Title, even at the FCS level, means more than an also-ran bowl game. You're 100% right about the NCAA being a big part of the problem.
I think the argument about FBSers wanting more exposure comes from repeated references to games on ESPN and millions of people watching bowl games with no actual relevance.
As far as ECU's weeknight games, and this is purely conjecture on my part, but I don't think Greenville has the same issues with accessibility and population that Boone has. Maybe Tuesday night games don't hurt them much, but I don't think that's a safe assumption given our location and relative population. Again, I may be wrong about that.
No one may be advocating it, but it will come with the territory. And I know plenty of ECU fans who are tired of weeknight games.
Hopefully our AD is smart enough to know that a weeknite game is not going to cut it with the faithful. I'll vote to stay FCS before that happens.
I know that for me it is not about exposure. It is about a better regular season schedule and scholarships. I am for the move up but I want it at the right time. I want the same number of scholarships that everyone else has. At least it would somewhat be fair when we would have to go to places like VaTech and NCState.
Dan's point:
"As far as ECU’s weeknight games, and this is purely conjecture on my part, but I don’t think Greenville has the same issues with accessibility and population as Boone"
Huh???? Most App fans do not live in Boone. Granted Greenville is bigger than Boone, but look at the following. App is much closer to larger markets. ECU also draws from Virginia and Maryland, but App draws from SC and GA.
Driving hours (with traffic) to each school:
Charlotte: App 2 ECU 4.5
Winston: App 1.5 ECU 3
Gboro: App 2 ECU 2.5
Raleigh: App 3 ECU 1.5
Atlanta: App ECU 7.5
Greeville, SC: App 2 ECU 6
Atlanta: App 4 ECU 7.5
No comparison. App is much more accessible to the larger markets.
Very good points with one exception. It dosen't take 1 1/2 hrs to get out of Greenville at night. Boone would have to solve that problem.
Not to mention that the 1.5 hours out is with only 30K fans. How long would it take with 45K+?
Like I said midwest, conjecture on my part. I would assume the larger population in G-ville would add to their alumni group located in the town, which would give them a little bit of an edge. Don't they also have 9,000 more students than App?
What's the hurray to leave? Those who want to beat the traffic like UNC fans can leave early like they always do and the rest of us will just tailgate….like we always do!
If we are down to making decisions on FBS based on time to leave then you need to stay at home and listen to the game on the radio….
There's no reason people would want to get home from a Tuesday night game as soon as possible?
Not to mention, I would say with new bypasses, it only takes about an hour to get from Raleigh to Greenville.
You left out Richmond and Norfolk. And ECU has a large Pennsylvania and Joisey contingency as well. I attended both Universities, and for people who have taste, style, and a sense of independence, the choice is simple, App State. People who go to ECU are (generalization coming up) predominantly going to favor going to chains to eat when they are on vacation, drink domestic, mass produced beer, and drive the most common SUV/BMW on the market.
Don't care about a SAT game we just tailgate but on a Tuesday night I need to get home.
I never leave early but with a three hour drive ahead of me with a stop to eat I often don't get home until midnight. At 59 that's harder for me to do than it once was. Of course, I'm retired now, so I guess a Tuesday night wouldn't affect me as it does others. (Not that I would like to see a bunch of midweek games.)
I have never left a game early and never will but a night tuesday game would get me home about 2:00 AM so I think I would be missing my first home game in 15 years.