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Recruiting – More players announce

mottoOver the weekend came news from “two defensive ends who were high school teammates, a 6-4 WR and an OL.” Also, Sunday night – “Hernando’s Thomas Bronson, the St. Petersburg Times’ North Suncoast defensive player of the year for the 2010 season, has committed to App State.”

205 Comments

  1. mideast

    January 25, 2011 at 5:10 am

    Finally getting some height but where are the stars! Slipping I tell ya…slipping!!!

  2. Asubradley

    January 25, 2011 at 6:00 am

    I am really liking what I am reading this morning!!!

  3. icers24

    January 25, 2011 at 6:20 am

    "But the facilities, I'm going to be honest, that's what sold me more than anything. It was nicer than USF, or UCF, or Duke or any of the places I visited over the summer."

    Loved this line

  4. moneyedwards

    January 25, 2011 at 6:28 am

    We are getting some good recruits.. I've heard upwards of 16-18..

  5. hapapp

    January 25, 2011 at 6:47 am

    "Bronson, a 6-foot-3, 235-pound senior defensive end, had 83 tackles and 47 for a loss for the Leopards this season. He added a team-high 14 sacks, caused six fumbles and added a fumble recovery for a Hernando defense that allowed an average of just ten points a game and shutout three opponents."

    That's all fine and good, but he committed a face mask penalty and that negates all that he accomplished and proves he can't play at this level. One more sign that we are slipping.

  6. hapapp

    January 25, 2011 at 6:49 am

    Sorry for being such a snark. I couldn't resist. I had to get it out of my system.

  7. MIDWEST

    January 25, 2011 at 6:54 am

    Face mask penalty on a highlight film tells you a little about his character. I hope he turns out well, so I will not make any more comments about Mr. Bronson….except…

    However, George Strait did call and had a message about Mr. Bronson
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8H-fhM8GqSQ

  8. mockenburd

    January 25, 2011 at 7:02 am

    Yea, Midwest, it looks like YOU do need to show up for spring camp! Got one uniform for a beer belly. You can tell some bear stories to the boys in the locker room…Ha! Three slaps

  9. MIDWEST

    January 25, 2011 at 7:07 am

    Mock,

    Do you know what I would give to hop in that uniform and play? I'd give up my exclusive copyright and trademark to the B. Quick Groove brand (the drink of champions that helps you score. smooth, chocolaty, refined, and complex). However, I would never part with the Asti Armanti sparkling adult beverage line.

  10. jack tatum

    January 25, 2011 at 7:07 am

    What it tells me about his character is that he's NASTY!!! Just what we need on defense…the BLACK CURTAIN! It's just to bad he didn't tear the guys face mask right off his helmet. That would have gotten him an offer from the Gators!

  11. Andrew

    January 25, 2011 at 7:14 am

  12. ceez

    January 25, 2011 at 7:36 am

    High school ratings mean nothing. There are 4 and 5 star players nation wide that may never see a snap of any importance in their career. Prime example would be Tim Washington that we got from lsu. High rated but didn't have an impact. Its all about how each player adjusts to the next level. More complex play books, weight lifting, going to class, being away from home, liking your brand new settings, coaches, and teammates. Ability to improve and grow both physically and mentally. That is what really sets those apart at the next level. Look around the NFL at how many guys did not have a name in college but made the changes to adjust to the NFL. If these recruits can adapt they will be just fine. Facts of life, some will, while others won't.

  13. mideast

    January 25, 2011 at 7:45 am

    No no no…if they don't have stars then no "varsity" program wants them, which means they're just JV players. Plus I can't brag to my friends about ASU's badass recruiting class!

  14. JohnnyBurrito

    January 25, 2011 at 8:03 am

    I think every year between December and late February we will debate the star system.

    The fact is Rivals doesn't pay too much attention to anyone under 3 stars. It looks as though if they gave a guy 0 stars and a BCS team picks them, they'll go back and give them at least 2 stars to cover their butts.

    A better indication of how good someone MAY be is to see who offered them.

  15. MIDWEST

    January 25, 2011 at 8:09 am

    Rivals.com and other rankings are valuable metrics to CONSIDER. Yes, some players develop later, but there is a reason why the top programs take (almost exclusively)players with 3 to 5 stars.

    True, less than three stars and it's a crap shoot. Take it as one of many metrics to consider, but it is not the end all, be all. However, I'll take as many 3-star athletes as we can get.

    Again, stop making excuses and placing limitations on our potential greatness.

  16. Paul

    January 25, 2011 at 8:18 am

    All. Please don't respond to Midwest anymore. He is an embarrassment to our fine University.

  17. mockenburd

    January 25, 2011 at 8:26 am

    When we didn't think HE could go any lower.

  18. AppGrad78

    January 25, 2011 at 8:32 am

    Question: How many Rivals 5-star players will start in next week's Super Bowl for Green Bay and Pittsburgh? A dozen? Ten? Eight?

    Answer: One

  19. ceez

    January 25, 2011 at 8:39 am

    More important how many offensive linemen from the midwest will start? Now that all depends on the person defining midwest

  20. MIDWEST

    January 25, 2011 at 8:55 am

    You hear what you want to hear. I said Rivals is ONE of MANY metrics to consider. Isn't it somewhat ironic that the college teams with the four and five star recruits…or is that just coincidental? It sure as hell doesn't mean that one can't slip through the cracks, which is why I said it's one of many metrics to consider.

    The problem here is that, apparently, App State is breeding a strain of mediocrity that is very concerning me. This attitude (the "we're just little ol' app state mentality) makes me sick to my stomach. Strive for greatness, people, not mediocrity!

    My God, get out of the trailer park!!!!

  21. MIDWEST

    January 25, 2011 at 8:57 am

    college teams with 4-5 star recruits are generally the best teams (sorry about the omission).

  22. MIDWEST

    January 25, 2011 at 9:00 am

    Ceez- I'm not from the midwest and, once again, you missed the point.

  23. L.Wade

    January 25, 2011 at 9:04 am

    im just wondering if someone stole AE's name or if he really commented on this post haha

  24. ceez

    January 25, 2011 at 9:08 am

    Right Midwest…Right

  25. ASUMtneer

    January 25, 2011 at 9:09 am

    if that was AE, SUP! work hard, show em what you can do next year, keep that head up!

  26. L.Wade

    January 25, 2011 at 9:14 am

    How many of our greatest players were given stars by rivals.com? Not AE, Not DJ Smith. Cadet was a 3 Star and Rivals' 19th best dual-threat QB for '07 but I hear "Cadet's not a quarterback" on here alllll the time. Seems like a lot of ya'll never really paid attention to the star system until now because otherwise you'd be saying we should start Cadet.

  27. Dr. Gonzo

    January 25, 2011 at 9:22 am

    Stars aren't necessarily indicative of good players, but if your program consistently gets players that have them, you're going to have a better team.

  28. HOGAN

    January 25, 2011 at 9:29 am

    While the star system is not an exact science, it's pretty obvious that the best teams in the country consistently have the highest touted high school recruits. I know there are exceptions but ultimately, it is a pretty good measuring stick for the promise of the university.

  29. Joe

    January 25, 2011 at 10:05 am

    Midwest, you want to know the real reason we're not getting an overload of 4 and 5 star recruits? We don't have the funding needed to push for those recruits.. nor do we have the number of scholarships to offer..

    Take a second to go over this scenario..

    We go hard over one recruit, a 5 star and spend more than half of our recruiting budget to get him. Awesome, we landed ourselves a big time player! However, since we used all that money on him, we can now only offer 4 more scholarships and can't pay for many trips to visit the other recruits. So we end up with 1 awesome player, and 4 others that only had offers from d2 schools since that's what our remaining budget will allow.

    Last time I checked, football is a team sport. I would much rather get 18 players who slipped through the cracks of the big boys, than get one super star recruit who might not even make it on the collegiate level.

    It all boils down to money and funding — something the ACC and SEC schools have and we don't!

  30. ceez

    January 25, 2011 at 10:10 am

    Thats why we need your 5 grand Joe…Put your money where your mouth is

  31. Joe

    January 25, 2011 at 10:12 am

    Oh, I can't fork over any more than I already do.. I'm just saying that's the main reason we can't compete for the big time recruits on a regular basis..

  32. Dan

    January 25, 2011 at 10:17 am

    I'm impressed Jack Tatum is posting here.

    Do they have Wi-Fi in Hell?

  33. ceez

    January 25, 2011 at 10:22 am

    Joe….You are just not seeing the light…you need a vision…Hold on one moment while I find a youtube link

  34. Dan

    January 25, 2011 at 10:36 am

    Can't wait until we have boosters like this.
    http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/story/14

  35. Rick

    January 25, 2011 at 10:42 am

    Just to throw in my two cents worth, you shouldn't pay too much attention to the stars and size of HS players. Many schools never have a Rivals (or other similar rating services) agent attend a game. They most often see players at camps and many players, whether due to financial constraints or timing, do not attend those camps. I have coached guys that went on to play at big-time schools (UNC, USC, Notre Dame, etc) and the pros that were never rated by any recruiting service. They miss many guys and they rate others very highly even though they never contribute on a college field.

    Many players in HS are playing multiple sports and do not hit the weights and training tables until they get to college. I coached one player who was an o-lineman that was 6-2 and 240 in high school, but played basketball, baseball and track. He flew under many radars (including ASU, despite my pleas) and ended up at one of the Service Academies on an acedemic scholly. He grew to 6-3 295 by his senior year and was started for 3 years. He was drafted in the later rounds and is finishing up his service requirements in the Navy now. Just look back at Bozzo or Acitelli, neither was over 6-2 and 240 coming out of HS and each blossomed and grew and were serious players at ASU. That has been ASU's road to the gold, getting the guys that the bigger schools miss and they have been very good at it. Not slipping, just doing the same thing that we have been doing.

  36. MIDWEST

    January 25, 2011 at 11:10 am

    Once again, stop lying about my comments. I said I'd take three stars all day long. I never said we could land the 5-star athlete.

    In he modern era of electronic communication, youtube, and e-portfolios, we have the ability to expand our recruiting reach more than ever (yes I know, so does everyone else). The point is that you can now get your foot in the door at places outside of NC/SC/GA. Do we utilize our alumni network for recruiting purposes? Probably not. Call all of the YOSEF members outside of the three state area and ask them if they have any leads on possible recruits. Many alumni, like myself, are involved in coaching in communities around the country and know the high school coaches.

    Hell, give me a four state area, and I guarantee you I will sign some great athletes. ABC- Always Be Closing. I'll close the f-ing deal, I promise you that.

    We seem to be stuck in this 1985 mindset and it drives me crazy. Time to evolve, cave men, time to evolve.

  37. MIDWEST

    January 25, 2011 at 11:21 am

    I just did a quick and random sample on Rivals of schools that are "kind of" at our level (in terms of recruiting appeal):

    Kent State: 14 2-stars
    Creighton: 4 3-stars
    Western Michigan: 1 3-star and 4 2-stars
    App State: 1 2-star

    Now, tell me what's wrong with this picture. I don't care if they're FBS or FCS, App State has more to offer than these schools listed above. It appears we are not getting it done.

    Maybe it's back to lack of diverstiy of the coaching staff? Hmmmm. Think about it. What's the problem?

  38. Joe

    January 25, 2011 at 11:39 am

    Whats the problem? You apparently failed to read my explanation — but again, you have never had a wrong opinion and think everything should just be handed to you..

    THE PROBLEM IS THE LACK OF FUNDING!!!! (did you see that?)

    All those schools have more than we can offer — 23 (i think its 23) more scholarships being the main thing!

    And I know you never said we could get a 5 star, I was just using it as an example. You can skew words all you want, but everyone here knows you're wrong!

  39. Interesting

    January 25, 2011 at 11:39 am

    Richmond has 5 2 star and 1 3 star
    Villanova has 5 2 star and 4 3 star

    we should be up there with those guys!

  40. clayton

    January 25, 2011 at 11:55 am

    I was bored earlier, so I looked at previous years on Rivals.
    http://rivals.yahoo.com/footballrecruiting/footba

    That's the top 100 from 4 years ago. Everybody's going to laugh at Clausen being #1, but look past it. A good chunk of those guys were legitimate stars in college.
    http://rivals.yahoo.com/footballrecruiting/footba

    Top recruiting classes. If you've played in the BCS championship game in the past 5 years, you're in the top 20 of that list.

    So, if we join the SEC, I'll have this "star" conversation. But, Rivals butters its bread with 5 star ratings, not with 2 stars.

  41. Joe

    January 25, 2011 at 12:00 pm

    And of those 15 guys you list, we only went after one of those guys.. something tells me the coaches know a little more about recruiting than you do and purposely did not go after those guys..

    Just looking at the 2008 and 2009 recruiting classes, here are the 2 and 3 star guys we had commitments from:

    2008
    Ingram Bell; 3 star – burried on the depth chart
    Malcolm Bennett; 3 star – solid, but not great
    Rod Chisholm; 2 star – buried on the depth chart
    Ed Gainey; 2 star – starts, but probably shouldn't, but still a 2nd team all SoCon
    Jordan Gary; 2 star – not even on team any more
    Justin Lloyd; 2 star – solid contributor

    2009
    Troy Sanders; 3 star – limited playing time
    Travaris Cadet; 2 star – solid RB, but was recruited as QB.. would be buried on depth chart if he stuck with that position
    Jamal Jackson; 2 star – buried on depth chart behind a no star recruit in DP
    Quin Thorton; 2 star – who?
    Justin Wray; 2 star – special teamer

    Unranked from those classes:
    Demery Brewer; 2008
    Sam Martin; 2008
    Dominique McDuffie; 2008
    Deandre Presley; 2008
    Lanston Tanyi; 2008
    Michael Frazier; 2009
    Jeremy Kimbrough; 2009
    Tony Washington; 2009

    So 8 no stars that actually play and contribute to our success vs. 5 "ranked" recruits that actually play and contribute..

    hmmm, seems to me like the coaches know what they are doing!

  42. ceez

    January 25, 2011 at 12:02 pm

    Not saying it effects recruiting, but the lack of diversity in the program is something I have always been worried about. Not indicating we should follow the Rooney rule, but we should maybe look into some diversity. Galloway was a coool dude

  43. MIDWEST

    January 25, 2011 at 12:02 pm

    Joe,

    We're getting smoked in recruiting by our competition. Stop making excuses. Complacency is finally catching up with us in recruiting as well…sigh…

    Make all the excuses you want, but I'd rather had two or three star athletes than no stars listed. At least there are reasons why they are listed with stars.

    Philosophy of the complacency crowd= buy a lottery ticket and hope for the best

    My philosophy- Educate yourself, have a vision, a strategic action plan to achieve the vision, and work your ass off until the vision is achieved.

  44. MIDWEST

    January 25, 2011 at 12:04 pm

    Ceez,

    Finally, you and I agree on something! Yes, yes, yes!

    Lack of diversity on the coaching staff is hurting us. Diversity is smart because it opens you to new markets, just like in business. You do it because it's a wise business move, not because you feel sorry for someone.

    I've been saying this for three years.

  45. Joe

    January 25, 2011 at 12:05 pm

    Did you not look at the list I just compiled of recruits with stars and no stars? We start and play more no stars than "ranked" players.. Not making excuses at all — just looking at factual data..

    Sorry you were proven wrong again and the only thing you can come back with is "stop making excuses.. i know i'm right but I can't prove it because there is no evidence of it"

  46. mideast

    January 25, 2011 at 12:13 pm

    Richmond and Nova have no mid-major FBS schools to compete against for 2nd tier players in the northeast where a lot of their recruits come from. The southeast and especially NC are saturated with D1 schools. There is way more competition for recruits in this area compared to the northeast.

    You may want to check Creighton's 4 – 3star players again unless we're comparing ASU's football team to their b-ball team.

    As for Kent State, if ASU recruited those players you'd probably be upset because they have a 5'10" WR, 5'10" LB, 5'9" DB, 5'11" QB…all under 6' with an OL weighing only 255lbs. MIDGETS!!!

    Western Michigan has, count'em, 4 players with no stars. GASP! Guess they just put new curtains in their trailer.

  47. ceez

    January 25, 2011 at 12:18 pm

    I will never argue with diversity

  48. MIDWEST

    January 25, 2011 at 12:21 pm

    excuses. Stop living in the past.

  49. Joe

    January 25, 2011 at 12:22 pm

    hah, exactly my point! You have nothing to back it up with so you just say excuses! At least put up an argument.. otherwise everyone can confirm what we already know — you're nothing but a coward!

  50. Gwaltineer

    January 25, 2011 at 12:23 pm

    I'm not exactly sure what competition is beating us out. ECU and Wake may be recruiting competition, but not athletic competion.
    6-6 and 6-5 DE's and a 6-4 WR is pretty damn good.
    Not to beat the dead horse, but since some have short memories, we've got 6 SoCon titles, 3 National Titles, and three more top 5 finishes in the last 6 years that says we're recruiting just fine.

  51. mideast

    January 25, 2011 at 12:32 pm

    I like our recruits and I think the coaches do a great job of bringing in players to fit ASU's system. As for competition, ECU beat us in '09 so I'm not sure what you mean by, "not athletic competition."

  52. clayton

    January 25, 2011 at 12:43 pm

    Joe's list is a great point. But, Justin Wray was a starter this year and will probably lead the team in tackles next year. Also, Troy Sanders started at corner all year.

  53. nomadb

    January 25, 2011 at 1:01 pm

    this blog is becoming unreadable thanks to Midwest's constant drivel. Every thread dissolves into the same argument which is spurred on by his complete and total disrespect of our university's achievements and the achievements of our coaches and athletes.

  54. MIDWEST

    January 25, 2011 at 1:03 pm

    Forget it. I don't have time for small minds. This board is losing it's luster because it has turned into a big circle jerk full of yes men who always agree with each other.

  55. Rick

    January 25, 2011 at 1:58 pm

    Ok, since noone read my previous response, I guess, I'll just say this. I played at App, I've coached for 15 years, and I've worked camps all over the southeast for 10 years. The whole "stars" thing is completely overrated and I can promise you, with 100% certainty, no college coach HAS EVER recruited a guy because rivals had him at "x" number of stars. Colleges have scouts (often the assist coaches) that put their own grade on players and that is what matters.

    Also, the stars rating is often a response to recruiting NOT a guage of talent. For instance, Brandon Lloyd was a 0 star recruit. He was moved to two stars AFTER and BECAUSE he signed with App. I have seen guys that were 2 star recruits get moved to 4 stars BECAUSE Clemson (or othe BCS schools) offered. This is not an exact science guys. Those of you that are involved in football know this.

  56. sideline

    January 25, 2011 at 2:35 pm

    Rick
    I am very sorry but I have to call you out on this one. If you think you know more than midwest does about this you are just dreaming. Midwest is a pop warner coach. In addition he talks to people in airports and has drinks with friends of friends. So stand down Rick and learn from the master.

  57. AB

    January 25, 2011 at 2:36 pm

    Kane Whitehurst had no stars when he visited ASU two Saturdays ago. He went to Arkansas this past weekend and committed to them, TODAY he was upgraded to three stars. The star system is a joke. Our coaches know talent when they see it.

  58. App95

    January 25, 2011 at 2:38 pm

    Speaking of moving guys up…Bronson was just given 2 stars on rivals.

  59. ASUMtneer

    January 25, 2011 at 2:45 pm

    Gasp 2, 2 stars!!!!

  60. MIDWEST

    January 25, 2011 at 2:48 pm

    I will give our coaches props for historically recruiting quality talent. However, I'm not sure we have always utilized the talent correctly at times…espcially this past year.

    sideline: you forgot to mention that I wrestled a bear.

    My only issue with Bronson was that he put a face mask penalty on his highlight film (like that's supposed to impress us). We have enough issues with discipline as it is.

  61. MIDWEST

    January 25, 2011 at 2:53 pm

    Speaking of discipline issues, I have to admit that I am still disappointed that Aramis Hillary never came to App. My portfolio of upscale products for men was almost complete.

    "Because every locker room needs a dose of ARAMIS"

    Damn.

  62. Yogi86

    January 25, 2011 at 3:21 pm

    Recruiting & talent is as good or better than it ever has been guys. Who recruited Corey Lynch or Kevin Richardson out of high school? Nobody. Rivals is a pile of BS. We need to be more concerned with coaching, especially on the offensive side of the ball. Villanova revealed a complete lack of effective game planning also seen at the stink. We've lost alot of offensive creativity & fire on the staff and no one more so than Elliott. His passion and blocking schemes completely resurrected USC's running game as we all saw. Chris Moore & gang just show no fire or creativity. All the talent in the world won't overcome ineffective, predictable play calling!

  63. MIDWEST

    January 25, 2011 at 3:28 pm

    Yogi,

    Let's focus on offense exclusively, especially since our defense has been so outstanding! haha.

    The defense is likely to be worse than it has been in a few years, which is scary.

  64. MIDWEST

    January 25, 2011 at 3:33 pm

    I agree that poor play calling and ineffective O-line schemes/talent has plagued this offense. The good news is I don't know how the play calling could be any worse than it was this past year.

  65. nomadb

    January 25, 2011 at 3:40 pm

    Are you even an App fan Midwest? It's one thing to be critical, but you never have anything positive to say. You act like our season was a bust last year…..here's a news flash….it wasn't.

    there were certainly problems with play calling and the defense was less than stellar in many aspects, but the team won a lot of games…..room for improvement? sure. the hot-garbage mess of a JV team you make them out to be? NOT AT ALL.

    Go get a life and quit trolling this board.

  66. Yogi86

    January 25, 2011 at 3:45 pm

    Defense had too many "superstars" who appeared to be reading their own press all year. We'll have a better defense next year with a bunch of blue collar no-names not looking to a few to make all the plays. Notoriety is seldom a good thing!

  67. Dr. Gonzo

    January 25, 2011 at 3:51 pm

  68. hapapp

    January 25, 2011 at 3:54 pm

    As someone posted earlier, Whitehurst being elevated from 0 stars to 3 stars simply because Arkansas saw fit to offer him. Ipso facto, three stars.

    Bronson, who has achieved the scorn of Midwest, has two stars after committing to us. That makes him in the "star' system, tied for the highest rated player we have thus far. Since in his opinion, Bronson is good enough to play for us, then the star system holds no value and we should cease talking about it and bemoaning our lack of "star" players.

    This recruiting class may be a bust. I certainly don't have the expertise to judge who can play for us based on watching a You Tube highlight film. I will, like the rest of us, have to wait and see how this class pans out.

    Would we gain commitments from some guys we aren't getting right now if we were FBS? I think so. However, we are still an FCS member and that will limit who we can recruit and where we recruit. A year from now, perhaps we will have that advantage. However, until then our recruiting process will likely remain as it has been. A process that has produced over the last 6 years the #1 program in FCS. Hard to be too critical under those circumstances. Not perfect, room for improvement but certainly not mediocrity.

  69. ASUMtneer

    January 25, 2011 at 4:06 pm

  70. Gwaltineer

    January 25, 2011 at 4:11 pm

    We recruit well. I know this because we'ce had 6 straight double digit win seasons.

  71. Joe

    January 25, 2011 at 4:38 pm

    Clayton,

    both of those players were included in the 5 "ranked" players.. Looking back at the list, its actually 6 "ranked" players that contribute.. Either way, its less than the 8 no star players.. But we are just making excuses, have no vision, are just yes men because we can use common sense and factual data..

  72. The rock

    January 25, 2011 at 5:24 pm

    I dont think our defense will suffer too much next year. Sure we lost some great players, but we also have Jon rizor who proved to be very hard to handle coming back, Tanyi will be back, along with several others who will be better after this season. I think a lot of our problems were with the new defensive scheme. Many of the growing pains should (hopefully) be worked out. There were several glimpses of a tenacious defense at times. Hopefully that will be the norm next year. We DO need a change, or rather an old standby, in our run blocking scheme. The run game struggled all year, except the wofford game when we went back to the old scheme. I agree that we need asst. Coaches with experience, knowledge and balls enough to call some creative plays.

  73. MIDWEST

    January 25, 2011 at 5:31 pm

    nomad,

    Yes, I do actually bleed black and gold. I'm not sure I would call last season a success or a bust. We had an easy schedule and played poorly against good teams. Could have been better but it could have been worse.

    If you consider the talent we had and the very poor competition we played, one could make the case that we were a slightly above average team.

  74. MIDWEST

    January 25, 2011 at 5:34 pm

    I agree with some of rock's point. We will never be a dominant team again until we develop a solid running game, which means we need a good O-line. I think we're a few years away from a good O-line.

  75. Joe

    January 25, 2011 at 5:48 pm

    But midwest, how can we have such a talented team when we apparently can't recruit? Or are you conceding that a team riddled with no star recruits can actually be good?

  76. MIDWEST

    January 25, 2011 at 6:33 pm

    Joe,

    2011 called…we're speculating about this year's recruiting class. Historically, we've done great against the dogs of the Socon. In my book, they are so far beneath us that I don't consider that factor.

    I am mentally preparing for the next level. Remember, I am always one step ahead of the masses (bears not included).

  77. FBS Now

    January 25, 2011 at 8:30 pm

    If our recruiting has been so great, why have we lost in the playoffs the last three years?
    All the facility advantages that we have and we lose, lose and then lose.

  78. parking lot

    January 25, 2011 at 9:00 pm

    would like to see more diversity as well. i feel like we have a bunch of like white redneck type coaches…

  79. Rick

    January 25, 2011 at 9:03 pm

    Yes, obviously our team is in shambles. No National Championships in 3 years? What a joke! We should just disband the team and start over. (Tongue placed firmly in cheek!) We said 4 years ago to be prepared for spoiled fans.

  80. cbarrier90

    January 26, 2011 at 12:04 am

    Parking lot,

    What about Wilcox and the strength and conditioning coach (his name escapes me)who was here last season?

    The star system is flawed, and I'm getting sick and tired of every topic on here turning into an FCS/FBS debate.

  81. cbarrier90

    January 26, 2011 at 12:09 am

    What I find most interesting is how our recruiting base has expanded over the past five years or so. Take a look back at the 05,06, and even 07 rosters and you see alot more NC's and SC's than you do now. Now there's alot more GA's in the mix and even an occasional FL and TX player.

    Not saying it's any better or worse, it's just an observation, and why I think even if UNCC gets that program of theirs off the ground in a few years we will be just fine.

  82. Gwaltineer

    January 26, 2011 at 2:42 am

    If you consider the talent we had and the very poor competition we played, one could make the case that we were a slightly above average team.

    Comment by MIDWEST 01.25.11 @ 9:31 pm

    If our recruiting has been so great, why have we lost in the playoffs the last three years?
    All the facility advantages that we have and we lose, lose and then lose.

    Comment by FBS Now 01.26.11 @ 12:30 am

    I'd like to present dumass 1 and dumass 2

  83. clayton

    January 26, 2011 at 2:51 am

    We may have more players in Georgia and Florida now, but we've always gotten talent out of those states. Lynch, Batichon, Jermaine Little, Dexter Jackson, Jeremy Wiggins, Daniel Bettis, Touchstone.

    That's all the receivers and DBs that had significant playing time on the 2005 team, except for Zach Johnson, Brandon Turner, and Woazeah.

  84. MIDWEST

    January 26, 2011 at 3:00 am

    I agree with Parking Lot 100%. I have always thought that our coaches are a little too red-necky. Fine, send the country boy coach out to the heatland to pick up a few O-inemen, but you don't send him down to the southside of the ATL inner city to land a recruit.

    I understand that coach Moore has always played the "father figure" role and parents may trust him to take care of their son, but I don't think that plays anymore because they may question how much longer he will be around.

    Again, you arrange a diverse coaching staff not because you feel sorry for someone, but because it makes good business sense. Like it or not, people sometimes believe and trust people they can identify with. Players are no different.

  85. MIDWEST

    January 26, 2011 at 3:05 am

    Let me make it clear, I am not suggest that any of our coaches are racist or discriminate against anyone. I'm just saying that you wouldn't send Toby Keith or Alan Jackson to southside Chicago to recruit for you. You'd probaby send Nelly or Lil' Wayne.

    It's like when my wife asked me to read this book about the 5 languages of love (apparently I don't speak any of them). Just because you speak one language doesn't mean the person to whom you are speaking speaks the same language. You have to speak the lanaguage they understand.

  86. MIDWEST

    January 26, 2011 at 3:12 am

    Gwalt- My 7 year old called… a grown mann etches an ink picture on his shoulder to compensate for some sort of personal inadequacies or inferiority. Look at me everyone, I'm Mr.Tough guy, I have a tattoo on shoulder so yo better respect me. And I'm the dumbass?

  87. Gwaltineer

    January 26, 2011 at 5:07 am

    You are not the dumass. You are a dumass. There are other dumasses. (this spelling gets through the firewalls more often)

  88. Joe

    January 26, 2011 at 5:33 am

    "I am mentally preparing for the next level. Remember, I am always one step ahead of the masses (bears not included).
    Comment by MIDWEST 01.25.11 @ 10:33 pm "

    Well Middy, when the funding comes in and our ability to recruit the highly touted athletes can become a reality, then I will agree.. but until then, lets focus on being able to fully fund our athletics program at the fcs/mid major level before we go onto the fbs level..

    We aren't even fully funded now as the "little guys" so how can you say we must move up now? Doesn't make any sense..

    You talk about diversity on the coaching staff being good for the business (and I agree with that) but you apparently don't know anything about finance and economics to think we have the funding to move up right now. Are we on our way? Possibly… But because we might be on our way, we are already in a huge amount of debt for our facilities.. now you want us to go even more in debt just so you can brag to your friends that we're in the Sun Belt?

    Now that doesn't make business sense.. I know, I know, we might make more money if we are fbs and cover that debt.. but might is the key word there.. I know you seem to think there is absolutely no way we can't make more money, but you clearly haven't looked into it.

    I give as much as I can to the University every year, how about you? I am helping your dream come to fruition, but my guess is you are just piggy backing on everyone else while we are all "stuck in the basement"

    And FWIW, I am pro-fbs if it makes sense.. we will see what the study says, but I just don't see it making any financial sense right now..

  89. 3-Star

    January 26, 2011 at 5:49 am

    Midwife- My dead horse called….

  90. MIDWEST

    January 26, 2011 at 6:33 am

    I really hate to have to beat a dead horse, but apparently it takes a while for people with learning disabilities to realize the true potential of App State.

    I am on a mission and I am from downtown. I will not be denied.

  91. moneyedwards

    January 26, 2011 at 7:08 am

    No..I'm not Armanti Edwards..just a big fan of his..
    GO APPS!

  92. 3-Star

    January 26, 2011 at 7:47 am

    Have you considered they don't agree with you because you constantly talk down to them?

  93. MIDWEST

    January 26, 2011 at 7:56 am

    When I speak down to people, it is often done in gest, or because the person is a complete moron and does not think for himself/herself.

    Remember, I am the anti-Tony Robbins motivator.

  94. cbarrier90

    January 26, 2011 at 7:57 am

    3 star is on the money. In fact, I think many would be surprised at how many people actually are in favor of a move up, they just don't go about voicing their opinions like Midwest.

    And for all the flack he gets on AppFan, if there's one thing we can say, it's that clearly he has a passion for the university.

  95. 3-Star

    January 26, 2011 at 8:10 am

    Barrier- You are correct. I feel that many people on this board would conditionally support a move.

    My conditions are:
    1) Don't cut any Men's sports
    2) Don't raise the student fees
    3) Don't dip into the general fund.
    If you meet these criteria, I'm all for it.

    We just have to go all negative to balance Midwife's barking because his owner has chained him up in the yard and left him alone too long.

  96. Zen

    January 26, 2011 at 8:14 am

    –"Joe’s list is a great point."

    Clayton, only if you don't look at it closely.

    Joe, you want a factual argument? Here it is.

    Your list proves Midwest's point and disproves yours. (I know I'm gonna get nailed for appearing to defend Midwest for anything, so let the insults fly)

    Between '08 and '09 Rivals lists a total of 30 recruits. 11 "starred" and 19 "un-starred". Based on your list of "contributors" there are 6 starred recruits contributing and 8 un-starred recruits contributing.

    That means that 55% of the starred recruits contribute and 42% of the unstarred recruits contribute.

    I'll even help your case here. You omitted John Rizor as an un-starred contributor. When he is included, the percentage of unstarred contributors rises to 47%. Still below the 55% of starred contributors. So statistically, starred recruits are a better bet to contribute.

    BTW, I wouldn't consider J. Jackson as "buried" on the depth chart. As a redshirt freshman, he is the primary back-up QB and helped push DP to become better through training camp competition. If JJ is included as a contributor (as I would consider him now and think he will to a greater extent in the future) the percentage of starred contributors would be 64%.

    Another way to look at your list would be to consider the fact that so many un-starred recruits have to contribute so much reveals a lack of recruiting prowess. If more starred recruits were secured, the un-starred recruits might not be able to play such a prominent role because their opportunities would be limited due to the superior talent competing for playing time.

    Not saying I necessarily agree with that, but I think it could be a valid argument.

  97. MIDWEST

    January 26, 2011 at 8:56 am

    3-star,

    The Fat Boyz just called and said, "Don't you dog me!" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cwDtIMac-Q0

  98. 3-Star

    January 26, 2011 at 9:09 am

    wanna treat?

  99. Joe

    January 26, 2011 at 9:19 am

    Zen, the other way you can look at it is of the players who contributed and picked up stats in the last playoff game against 'Nova, only 3 of them had stars..

    Cadet, Troy Sanders, and Ed Gainey.

    So that means of the 33 who gained stats (not counting offense line unless they made a tack on special teams/turnovers — like Kilgore did), only 3 were ranked coming out of HS.. 3!!!

    Thats 9% of the players who gained stats during A PLAYOFF GAME (the final one at that). Clearly the coaches are going to put who they think is the best team on the field.. that means 91% of the best team (i know injuries as play a part as well) were non-ranked coming out of HS..

    I knew someone would bring that argument up.. But you didn't take into consideration the walk ons and the ones that don't show up on MountaineerIllustrated (i.e. CoCo Hillary).

    How's that for factual evidence? My list proves my point and demolishes middy's claim that unless they are 2 or 3 stars, they are not good to play here…

  100. AppOrange

    January 26, 2011 at 9:19 am

    If your not moving forwards, your moving backwards . . .

    I bet GSU never thought they would suck as bad as they did the last few years after winning that 6th NC. I hang on every play, highlight, tid-bit of news concering FB, but at some point you have to strive to be better and grow. Imagine if someone had thought going 1-AA would be too expensive years ago (I bet some did) . . .

    If we can pay for it, I say let's go!

  101. timclassof1977

    January 26, 2011 at 9:20 am

    Our coaching staff has made it clear that "stars" do not impress them. (Watch "Under The Lights" again to see this) The staff's concern is how hard does a kid work when he gets to Boone. Loosely quoting Speir " We play the best players here. It doesn't matter if he's a two star or three star athlete or a walk-on". Speir goes on to say that six of the starting 22 on the 06 NC team were walk ons. I like this system. The kids who play are the hungriest ones. The kids who put out and sweat and outwork their teammates are the ones who play not those with the most stars.This seems to work as AE had no stars, neither did Coco,nor DJ. The emphasis is on production not potential.So I say, "If it ain't broke don't fix it." Three NC's and 6 SoCons in a row are proof this works.

  102. Joe

    January 26, 2011 at 9:30 am

    AppOrange, FWIW, I am in the same boat.. I just have a hard time believing we can pay for it with all of the budget issues we already have…

  103. L.Wade

    January 26, 2011 at 9:30 am

    in other news, Legree just posted on his facebook that he was invited to the combine!

  104. Gwaltineer

    January 26, 2011 at 9:39 am

    Joe, Zen will now ask you a question that you already answered at some point on this thread and then try to mock you in an uncleaver way for not answering it again.

  105. MaxHr203

    January 26, 2011 at 10:05 am

    Somebody that post here has his head up his ass so far he must never see daylight!!!!!!

  106. Zen

    January 26, 2011 at 10:08 am

    Joe, are you sure you want to use the Nova game to back your argument?

    Because the facts show that Nova had NINE starred recruits to put up stats in that game (your criteria, not mine).

    We all remember how that game turned out.

    I'm certain that Nova put their best team on the field as well (Heaven help us if they didn't).

    That means a rational, logical analysis of your chosen data set would clearly recommend recruiting more starred athletes so that the un-starred athletes aren't required to play such a large role and be outmanned against competition that recruits better (starred) players.

    –"But you didn’t take into consideration the walk ons and the ones that don’t show up on MountaineerIllustrated (i.e. CoCo Hillary)."

    I didn't bring it up because you didn't. If you like, we can consider those players and see where the percentages fall. I don't think you want that though, for it is certain to hurt your argument.

  107. parking lot

    January 26, 2011 at 10:10 am

    cbarrier…

    didnt say 0 diversity. said lack of. kind of like the student body at our great school.

  108. Joe

    January 26, 2011 at 10:16 am

    Zen, where do you get 9? What link are you using for your stats? I got 3..

    And yes, I know it wasn't the best game for us, but was it still the best team our coaches could put on the field? Maybe not, but they certainly thought it was…

  109. Joe

    January 26, 2011 at 10:16 am

    And I am going through the entire season stats now to further prove the point…

  110. MIDWEST

    January 26, 2011 at 10:18 am

    Usually when coaches say that stars don't impress them, it means they don't have very many.

  111. Zen

    January 26, 2011 at 10:24 am

    Joe,

    Nova had nine.

  112. Joe

    January 26, 2011 at 10:32 am

    Ok, Nova had 9, good for them.. and actually, it was 4 that we had in the playoff game against 'Nova — forgot to put Justin Wray in..

    Based on this season, of the 60 players who gained stats (again, not including OL unless they were in on special teams and/or made a tackle on a turnover), only 16 were ranked coming out of high school — and that includes Devin Radford which really shouldn't count since we never went after him.

    So that is 26.667% of the team who garnered stats that were ranked coming out of highschool..

    Again, we don't NEED the stars in our recruits. We get the guys that slip through the cracks (as evidenced with these numbers) and want to contribute. Would it be nice to get the stars — certainly! But only if the coaches are offering because they notice something.. not soley because they had 2 or 3 stars.

    Do you really want me to go back to the 2005-2007 championship years when we had even less starred recruits and do this analysis to prove this?

  113. Joe

    January 26, 2011 at 10:34 am

    Wow, its actually only 12.. not 16 — to even further my point!

    Thats actually only 20% — not 26.667%

  114. hapapp

    January 26, 2011 at 10:36 am

    We never considered moving up to IAA. We made the move to D1. We later opted to play IAA rather IA. There was no such nomenclature when we became a D1 school.

    I can't believe we're still arguing over the star system. Some of the very best players we have ever had, including the best we ever had had no stars. It has been shown that players with no stars become 3 star players once they receive an offer from an FBS/BCS program. Even one of our recruits became a 2 star after he signed with us. Because a player has no stars is not indicative of how good he is.

    We won't know the value of this recruiting class until they arrive and become a part of the team.

    Are you certain that EWU had more starred players than NOVA? If they didn't how is it possible they beat them? Did EWU have more than Delaware? The game is based on performance not how heralded one is coming out of high school.

  115. tim

    January 26, 2011 at 10:47 am

    Thanks for the heads up L.Wade! Hope Legree makes the most of his opportunity. It would be awesome to see him (and DJ) get drafted by 5th round or before. Anyone know what the experts are saying about Kilgore?

  116. AppOrange

    January 26, 2011 at 11:33 am

    hapapp,

    So we were division 1 when this was our schedule? Maybe in theory, but certaiinly not reality:

    S 29 at Mountain City L 0-26
    O 6 at Wilkesboro W 6-0
    O 13 Morganton L 0-7
    O 27 Rutherford L 6-50
    N 3 Lees-McRae W 52-0
    N 9 at Bluefield State (W.Va.) L 0-44
    N 17 Mt. Park W 52-0
    N 24 at Belmont Abbey L 0-13
    N 31 at East Tennessee State L 6-9

    My point is that at times in our football history, we have had to make decisions to move on to bigger and better things (like when we were independent and moved into our first conference).

    I am sure there were detractors then too, but sometimes you got to push forward . . .

  117. Dr. Gonzo

    January 26, 2011 at 11:38 am

    People could take an interest in basketball…

  118. TRR

    January 26, 2011 at 11:39 am

    All we need is a few better called plays on both side of the ball and a significant amout of MEAN in our players. In the loss to Nova we simply seemed to give up after they started running through our defense. Tough and mean will overcome any stars on any level of competition I hate to say it but look at this years steelers. They have less star players than a considerable amount of pro teams. They are simply tougher and meaner.

  119. hapapp

    January 26, 2011 at 12:04 pm

    We went D1 around 1971-2. IAA (FCS) didn't exist until 1978 or thereabouts. So we were D1 after we transitioned from NAIA in the early 70's. We opted to remain with the SoCon and become IAA.

    Not sure what year you pulled that schedule from, but it was way before we were D1.

  120. hapapp

    January 26, 2011 at 12:12 pm

    Our 1975 D1 Schedule:

    ECU
    Wake
    Furman
    Tenn Tech
    ETSU
    LRC
    UR
    The Citadel
    So. Carolina
    Western
    Davidson

  121. hapapp

    January 26, 2011 at 12:14 pm

    BTW, we beat ECU, Wake, and South Carolina in 1975. Unfortunately, we lost to Furman, UR, and Western costing us a likely bowl invite.

  122. Zen

    January 26, 2011 at 12:30 pm

    Joe, Joe, Joe,

    –"Ok, Nova had 9, good for them.. "

    It was VERY good for them and VERY bad for us. But let's just shrug off what their ranked recruits did to our unranked recruits.

    –"So that is 26.667% (ammended to 20%) of the team who garnered stats that were ranked coming out of highschool.."

    Totally meaningless. That just indicates a small number of ranked recruits on the team. In essence, if you dilute the talent level far enough, I could get some stats on a college football team. Granted, it would have to be EXTREMELY diluted for that to happen.

    There are 102 players listed on last season's roster, and you said that 60 players garnered stats last season.

    By my count, there are 13 ranked recruits on that roster. 12 of them contributed stats. That means 92% of those ranked recruits contributed stats.

    Simple math then tells us that there are 83 unranked recruits on the roster and that 48 of those contributed stats or, 58%.

    So, based on your criteria, it looks like that for every 100 ranked recruits you land, you get 92 productive players. For every 100 unranked recruits, you get 58 productive players. Hmm… seems like the ranked players are a much better bet.

    Your argument, based on unranked recruits garnering stats in the absence of ranked recruits, is meaningless at best and dangerous to the future success of the program if other schools (Nova) are landing those ranked recruits.

  123. Joe

    January 26, 2011 at 12:35 pm

    Ha, ok Zen, go ahead and skew some numbers all you want.. you are trying to prove something completely different than I am. I am just simply saying our team, although with minimal ranked recruits on our roster, succeeds.

    Again, do you really want me to go through the 05-07 championship team and count how many recruits had stars?

    Or better yet, this years EWU team that won it all?

    When I get home, I am going to do both of those just to prove its not about how many stars.. its about getting players you see fit the system regardless what the "experts" think…

  124. Joe

    January 26, 2011 at 12:37 pm

    And let it be known, that 'Novas two best players, Matt Sczur and Ben Ijalana were no stars..

  125. appthunder90

    January 26, 2011 at 12:41 pm

    where is bcoach? id love to hear him weigh in on this. oh and since noone has really done this yet…. lets go fbs. (just thought it was discouraging for such a long thread not to disintegrate into that argument) …. lol

  126. appthunder90

    January 26, 2011 at 12:46 pm

    i happen to agree that stars are not the MOST important thing in the world… but you certainly cant ignore or discount them simply because the system exists.

  127. Joe

    January 26, 2011 at 12:55 pm

    And I am not ignoring or discounting them at all.. All I am saying is they are not the end all, be all of recruiting.. Just because 'Nova has four 3-star recruits this year means absolutely nothing — that is all I am saying!

  128. Zen

    January 26, 2011 at 1:06 pm

    What numbers have I skewed? Please provide specific example(s). Just because you can't dispute them, don't say they are skewed.

    –"its about getting players you see fit the system regardless what the “experts” think…"

    Believe it or not, I actually agree with that. If the player fits the system and you think he can be coached up, will grow, become stronger, get faster etc. then get him. But only after you tried to get the ranked kid that fits the sysyem but is ranked because he is already more advanced.

    I think, at this point, ASU should be able to get more of those ranked players that fit the system.

    My objection is the basis of the argument you used to promote your position. It's simply illogical.

  129. Zen

    January 26, 2011 at 1:08 pm

    –"And I am not ignoring or discounting them at all.. All I am saying is they are not the end all, be all of recruiting.. Just because ‘Nova has four 3-star recruits this year means absolutely nothing — that is all I am saying!"

    Wanna go for multiple contradictions in your next post?

  130. MIDWEST

    January 26, 2011 at 1:21 pm

    It comes down to would you rather have 3-star athletes or no-star athletes. Like I said, I'll take 3-stars all day long.

  131. clayton

    January 26, 2011 at 1:49 pm

    We'd have better athletes if we recruited 10 3-star athletes than 10 no star athletes, even though the star system isn't a perfect science and many of our best players have been no star athletes and several star athletes have not performed to expectations. Based on percentages, the higher the number of stars a player receives, the higher the likelihood that the player will be great. We don't currently have many recruits that are star rated and that doesn't necessarily mean we are doing bad, it's just difficult to quantify how well the recruiting season is going for us.

    That's it. Move along.

  132. hapapp

    January 26, 2011 at 1:52 pm

    I'd take Armanti Edwards.

    I don't think anyone is saying they wouldn't like ASU to have some star rated players. But, I don't think we can judge a class because it lacks a bunch of three star athletes. If we signed Whitehurst he would have been a no star commit. Now, because he signed with Arkansas he has three stars behind his name.

    In the end, it is all about how those players develop not what credentials they bring with them from high school. Our coaches have sought athletic players who can develop in our system. They recruit someone like Brian Quick who had very little experience but had great potential. He has a chance to be one of our best ever at his position.

  133. Appfan19

    January 26, 2011 at 2:07 pm

    Bobby Bowden attributed the downfall of Florida State after '02 to signing guys who were 4 and 5 star recruits and not players who showed them tremendous ability.

  134. Appfan19

    January 26, 2011 at 2:19 pm

    http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/football/recruiting/

    That's Armanti's rivals page. How many stars did he have?

    ZERO

  135. Zen

    January 26, 2011 at 2:36 pm

    AE is the execption on every conceivable level. His success isn't something to base a recruiting strategy on. You'd likely miss on a lifetime of unranked or unheralded recruits before you hit on another AE.

  136. The rock

    January 26, 2011 at 2:38 pm

    Dear God people!! Are we really still discussing this? REALLY? It is all a subjective estimation. Who cares what someone "thinks" a player can do, or how highly someone "says" they should be recruited? The ONLY thing that matters are the results and how hard that person is willing to work to succeed. There have been plenty of high ranking recruits bust, and low or no ranking flourish. App always has a way of producing some big time athletes regardless of who they are and how well (or not) they are supposed to play. All that matters is what you see at KBS in black and gold.

  137. A.Freeman

    January 26, 2011 at 2:48 pm

    this thread is proof it is january and we have 219 days til kick off and we are starved for something to talk about….

  138. Zen

    January 26, 2011 at 2:55 pm

    The Rock,

    You're right, we shouldn't talk about anything that hasn't happened yet. Even though we would then be talking only about history and therefore the conversation would be irrelevent. Unless lessons can be learned from history and would therefore be applicable to the future. But we shouldn't talk about the future, so there is no reason to talk about the past. Let's all just stay in the present.

    I'm eating a cookie now, but please don't anyone respond because I'm almost done and by the time you read this the cookie event will be history.

  139. John Boy

    January 26, 2011 at 2:59 pm

    We need to sign a half dozen Corey Darrington's every year so people can get their fill of stars.

  140. Gwaltineer

    January 26, 2011 at 3:26 pm

    Matt Sczur scored 5 TD's against us. What percentage of the points Nova scored against us was that?

  141. clayton

    January 26, 2011 at 3:29 pm

    7

  142. MIDWEST

    January 26, 2011 at 5:21 pm

    No one is saying that a no-star athlete cannot be great. After all, some kids develop later adn sometimes stars can't measure heart and work ethic.

    However, what would be saying if we had 6 3-stars on the board right now? That pretty much answers the question. We would be talking about how great we're doing recruiting.

    Let's stop making excuses by focusing on outlier recruits that happen to become great. I'll take those too…but give me some stars, baby!

  143. mockenburd

    January 26, 2011 at 5:22 pm

    I may have missed "it", but am I to understand that the start system is totally subjective? Certainly there are some objective criteria to help determine the starts……besides, if the guy got "picked up" we give him some stars.
    Though you cite only the two Nova players, they were BIG.

  144. MIDWEST

    January 26, 2011 at 5:23 pm

    The star system is like looking a someone's resume. Yes, they look good on paper and I may decide to interview someone based on their resume. But, when they're sitting down in front of me in the interviewing room, they better be ready to perform.

  145. mockenburd

    January 26, 2011 at 5:25 pm

    *Star system. Sorry

  146. MIDWEST

    January 26, 2011 at 5:30 pm

    Here are the options:

    1) Recruiting is not going well (talent, not numbers of recruits)

    2) Stars will be added on to some of these guys later, which will make us feel better

    3) We have few aces in the hole and we're waiting until the last minute (from a strategic perspective) to display their names

    You'll be surprised by this, but I think 2 and 3 is a real possibility.

  147. Gwaltineer

    January 26, 2011 at 5:34 pm

    I think a lot of folks' point is that given our recent success, our program recruits very well at the FCS level so those acting like experts when discussing 17 year olds they've never seen is a kind of a joke.

  148. MIDWEST

    January 26, 2011 at 5:42 pm

    Gwalt- do you know what metrics Rivals uses to evaluate talent and to assign stars?

    If we coached as well as we recruited, we'd be doing alright.

  149. The rock

    January 26, 2011 at 6:01 pm

    Midwest,
    Instead of reading resumes and conducting interviews, wouldn't you rather like the prospects up and hit them in the head with basketballs to test toughness? Seems to save lots of recruiting time and money.

  150. The rock

    January 26, 2011 at 6:02 pm

    ***** line****

  151. MIDWEST

    January 26, 2011 at 6:07 pm

    Rock- I never said I approved of the whole basketball incident, but I did witness it.

    I think you meant to say "blow them up." Yes, I admit, I do tell my son (who will play DE at App one day) to blow people up during football season.

    Here is a fine example of Friday Night Lights that I apeak of. These are the people I talk about when I say they start pumping iron at the age of 10.
    http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=60616

  152. The rock

    January 26, 2011 at 6:19 pm

    I'm just stirring the pot a little middy. By the way, you do know Friday night lights is a scripted fictional show right?

  153. MIDWEST

    January 26, 2011 at 6:28 pm

    Here's a funny shot of me wrestling the bear. Look at some of these videos. Bears are natural wrestlers, you know.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0cmjL8Aj5dM

  154. MIDWEST

    January 26, 2011 at 6:30 pm

  155. The rock

    January 26, 2011 at 6:41 pm

    ^^^ when I do that, they put the chain on ME so I don't hurt the bear.

  156. MIDWEST

    January 26, 2011 at 6:51 pm

    we should have an Appfan bear wrestling fundraising event. All proceeds to the Yosef club.

  157. carbine

    January 26, 2011 at 7:18 pm

    "I do tell my son (who will play DE at App one day)…"

    Not if he's anything like you.

  158. chAmPPs

    January 27, 2011 at 1:31 am

    I know the mistake was corrected about Justin Wray's contribution earlier, but in my opinion, that guy will be our defensive MVP the next couple of years. He's a head hunter.

    To be successful this year, and to me that's winning the conference to set ourselves up for a deep playoff run, we need three things…

    1. Much better coaching in the game planning and play calling, AND we have to be able to adjust during the game. Last year it seemed like if a team had a better sceme than us early, it stayed that way the entire game. That worries me more than recruiting right now.

    2. Those kids on the O-line that were red shirted last year have to step up in a big way.

    3. We need somebody to step up in a leadership role similar to Corey Lynch. This could be Wray's role this year, as well. I certainly couldn't identify a bonified leader on our defense, really for the last three years. On offense, DP was great the first half of the year and put the team on his back, but I didn't see him as a leader down the stretch. He had his own issues to deal with.

  159. MIDWEST

    January 27, 2011 at 3:49 am

    Carmine- that really hurts me. booohoo. How did you ever come up with a slam so creative?

    Hey Carmine, Fonzie just called to say that he carted (farted and a little Carmine came out). Damn Carmine, you really have jumped the shark, haven't you?

  160. mockenburd

    January 27, 2011 at 4:32 am

    Champs, you nailed it,I believe, with your lisTht of 3.I thought Wray was very impressive this past season. We will see alot of him next year. And yes, we did recruit a number of O line last year who will need to fill the holes. Although I don't totally agree with Midwest and his being against scuba diving in the summer (remember his rants?), the new and improved O line will need to do some off season work to keep up with the likes of a Nova, should they go against such again. They might not be 6-6 and 310#, but they can be a quick, strong, 6-4, 285.

  161. MIDWEST

    January 27, 2011 at 4:51 am

    I'm just going out on a limb here, but I can't imagine that many outstanding college O-linemen scuba dive all summer? Maybe runners, triathletes, vacationers, but not REAL offensive linemen who know they need to step up to protect a new QB in the Fall.

  162. Joe

    January 27, 2011 at 4:58 am

    Middy, if we had 4+ 3-star athletes in the pipeline right now, I would say cool but wouldn't judge the recruiting class until I saw them play.

    That happened last year with Brandon Hunter, Antonio Danzy, Derek Shuemake, and Dan Wylie.. Of those 4 amazing, 3 star athletes that are obviously going to be the best players we have, only Shuemake and Wylie mad a contribution. And, lets face it, they only made a contribution because our Dline depth was weak when Tanyi was out for the season.

    Honestly, I was excited for Brandon Hunter because of his size and speed — nothing to do with how many stars he had.

    And Zen, you skewed the numbers to make them say something completely different than what I am arguing. I never said 3+ star recruits are bad; I just said they aren't the end all, be all of recruiting like you and midwest seem to think.

    I could care less if we have that many starred recruits.. I would rather the coaches recruit people they think will fit in the system and be successful — that has seemed to work pretty well recently!

  163. Joe

    January 27, 2011 at 5:00 am

    Oh and not to mention Wylie and Shuemake are JC transfers so they should be ready to compete right away — they are used to college competition.

  164. Joe

    January 27, 2011 at 5:08 am

    So what do the following have in common?

    Richie Williams
    Armanti Edwards
    Marques Murrell
    Jason Hunter
    Corey Lynch
    Kevin Richardson
    Jeremy Wiggins
    Jerome Touchstone
    Justin Woazeah
    Devon Moore
    Daniel Bettis
    Ben Jorden
    William Mayfield
    Matt Cline
    CoCo Hillary
    Dexter Jackson
    Mario Acitelli
    Brad Coley

    They were all integral parts in our championship runs, but NONE were ranked coming out of high school.. And there are more walk ons that made a huge impact (mainly on the offensive line)

    But, you are right Middy — we HAVE to get 3 star recruits or we won't have any success!

  165. MIDWEST

    January 27, 2011 at 5:51 am

    Joe- The point has been made. While not having starred athletes does not prohibit us from being successful, but it probably increases our chances of being successful.

    Again, you're living in the past. I am talking about the future.

    What would we be talking about if we had 6 3-star athletes on the board. No one would be questioning how recruiting is going.

    Making excuses doesn't solve problems.

  166. MIDWEST

    January 27, 2011 at 5:54 am

    Interesting the every college football team strives to land starred athletes, but some of you think that App should be SATISFIED with living in the world of outliers.

    Hey, Malcolm Gladwell called and wants you to read his book entitled, Outliers.

    If you expect me (and many App fans) to sit back and be satisfied with mediocrity, you're insane. You're either getting better or getting worse. It is impossible to stay the same as those around you are probably getting better. Raise the bar.

  167. Joe

    January 27, 2011 at 6:02 am

    Once again, Middy, WE DON'T HAVE THE FUNDS TO EXPAND OUR RECRUITING EFFORTS ANY MORE THAN WE HAVE!!! Stop piggy backing and actually donate to the school instead of criticizing it!

    Also (once again), if we had 6 3-star recruits, I would be saying "cool.. hope they can play" and would wait to see how they produce on the field before judging them. Again, like I did last year with our 4 3-star recruits.

  168. Dan

    January 27, 2011 at 7:15 am

    Have you approached Coach Moore about being the new recruiting coordinator?

  169. Gwaltineer

    January 27, 2011 at 7:25 am

    Mid, I really am honestly going to make a calm and sincere statement directed your way with no underlying "i'd like to kick your a–" motive.
    It is below:

  170. Gwaltineer

    January 27, 2011 at 7:37 am

    Reviewing the last 10 or 11 years with FCS eyes (which is not your perspective), our talent level has been very high. It is evident by only two years in the last decade of missing the playoffs, 3 titles, and a current streak of 6 SoCon championships and 6 finishes in the top 5.
    Again, with this perspective, it is difficult not to feel pretty good about how we recruit. Recent performance (the past you keep talking about) should give most fans a lot more confidence in the recruits coming in this year than any YouTube videos, star system, or opinions by fans on a blog who have not sceen them or have any college or high school football experience to speak of.

    It is not an issue of living in the past, but rather the past and present should make us feel pretty damn good about the future.

  171. clayton

    January 27, 2011 at 7:50 am

    I’m with you on Wray. Not saying he’s DJ Smith, but he can definitely be All-SoCon. If healthy, Tanyi can be better than Fletcher.

  172. Joe

    January 27, 2011 at 8:27 am

    And yet another long comment ruled out because of a spam filter — there wasn't anything wrong with the comment.. I might be done here on AppFan..

  173. MIDWEST

    January 27, 2011 at 8:47 am

    Gwalt- I agree with your comment.

    The question is whether we are slipping and are we always striving to get better…or is there a degree of complacency that is slipping in?

    For the record, I have not (historically) been critical of our recruiting. Coaching, yes, but not recruiting.

    Last year, I began to feel that we were sliding a bit. Maybe it was the JuCo transfers, but I got the impression that we were a little desperate in some areas and JuCo deals were a last ditch effort to fill some holes. Personally, I like to build talent from the ground up, but I also understand that sh*t happens.

  174. carbine

    January 27, 2011 at 8:57 am

    I don't claim to know anything about recruiting high school players, other than what I saw while teaching at that level years ago. But it seems to me that based on the comments of people who do know about the 'star' system, and especially Joe's information above, it would be ridiculous to put much stock in whether a kid has a star, or two, or three, by his name. Personnel selection is always tricky, no matter what level you're playing at (or even what game–or business) you're playing, and past performance is no guarantee of future success. Especially with kids this age. The bottom line is always going to depend on the coach's judgement, and the coach who 'outsources' that task to some anonymous 'star grader' guy is not doing his job.

  175. MIDWEST

    January 27, 2011 at 10:43 am

    There are so many factors to consider and I agree that too much emphasis placed on the star system, but there are metrics in place for one to earn certain stars, so I guess I'd rather have a 3-star than a no-star.

    However, the reality is that there are a lot of small high schools in rural areas. Unless the parent or coach is fluent and interested in modern communication methods, many atheltes get overlooked. I often wonder how many great athletes never make it to college at all (not because of grades or intelligence, but other reasons)?

    I knew a guy who was an unbelievable athlete growing up and a good student. His parents were of the belief that "the world needs ditch diggers too" and never really pushed him to go to college. The guy now manages a small grocery store.

  176. bcoach

    January 27, 2011 at 2:51 pm

    Actually you have the cart before the horse. Big time programs don't go after starred players. Players get stars when it is discovered that programs are looking at them. Rating services are in it to make money not to help players or programs. They can only make money with fan interest like what is going on here. Coaches do their own scouting and grading. Like it has been said on here over and over no stars get stars after a program pickes them up. What we want is players that fit our system. The best pocket passer in the country is not going to do us much good. I think we have had some pretty heavy losses in the coaching staff. I don't think anyone can argue that. I also think we just won another conference championship and you can't do that without good coaching. We can get on here and pontificate all we want but I think that our coaching staff helped get us to the playoffs again. How many teams didn't get there. We are having a good run. Enjoy it. It will not last for ever. No program stays at the top forever. Florida State, Michigan, ND, Nebraska they all fall at some point. Enjoy what we have now.

  177. MIDWEST

    January 27, 2011 at 3:04 pm

    Bcoach- The first part of your statement about stars is not entirely true.

    Secondly, winning a conference that you're supposed to dominate is only mildly satisfying. It's like Chris Rock's standup routine when he talks about certain people bragging about taking care of their kids…like they deserve a medal of honor or something. "You're supposed to take care of your kids", Rock exclaims.

    We're SUPPOSED to win the dogs of the SoCon every year.

  178. appthunder90

    January 27, 2011 at 3:21 pm

    bcoach! youre back! where you been? the conflicts on here were getting entirely baseless and uncivilized.

  179. GoApps73

    January 27, 2011 at 7:30 pm

    Hi from Kabul:

    Of course the Star Ratings by Rivals mean at least a little bit although not perfect. What I noticed is that Conference USA, with 12 teams, had a combined two 4-star recruits and, of course, zero 5-Star ones. Can one assume that the Conference is not a Monster Conference where great high school players want to further their playing careers? And, if somehow ASU ends up in Conference USA will it help our recruiting? I question whether it will as we are getting some decent/good players now.

    NOTE: I believe East Carolina could well end up in the Big East. So, we could be a replacement for them if they move up.

    What I think makes sense in my humble opinion, if it could transpire, is for ASU, Richmond, William and Mary, Georgia Southern, and James Madison to end up in the same conference as part of the Colonial. And it would help our Basketball Recruiting as the Southern Conference gets no love during March madness selection time except as an anomaly.

  180. tim

    January 28, 2011 at 7:00 am

    Doubt W&M would want to be in a conference with ASU. Didn't they leave the Socon shortly after App was admitted due to academic standards? Our fans have also been complaining about private schools and UR fits that bill.

    I also don't believe ECU will be admitted into the Big East until all other efforts have been exhausted. They'll look to members of BE b-ball programs (Nova & GT), then they'll look toward Memphis, UCF and Temple (due to TV markets). ECU would most likely be a last resort.

  181. MIDWEST

    January 28, 2011 at 7:05 am

    ECU will not end up in the Big East anytime soon. UCF and Memphis would be well ahead of them, mainly because of market size.

    UCF has a new campus on stadium and will have the highest enrollment of any school in two years. It also makes sense for them to have a rival in USF, which is already in the Big East. UCF will move before Memphis.

    Richmond and W&M do not have facilities to support a move to FBS, although Richmond probably has the cash.

    Given the fact that we are competitive with most of the CUSA schools now (with 22 fewer scholarships), I feel strongly that we can be a top tier CUSA school in a few years.

    Our athletics program will likely continue to be football-driven, not basketball-driven, so we will not join a "basketball" conference.

  182. bcoach

    January 28, 2011 at 8:55 am

    appthunder90
    That's why I don't come here very often anymore. It has gotten just like politics. Nobody is going to change their mind and if you don't agree with somebody you are an idiot. It just got old. I happened to get on the other day and due to the fact I know some pro scouts and some collage assistants I responded to the star thing. Of course I was wrong again so I guess I'll mind my own business. Have a great day!

  183. sideline

    January 28, 2011 at 9:13 am

    Here is something to think about. I keep hearing that if we move to FBS it will help our recruiting. What help is it that we are looking for? Right now we are recruiting in about the top 20-30% of FCS level players. If we move up we will be working with about the bottom 30-40% of FBS level players. Is that improving our recruiting? I don't think it is any better or worse. It's just different because we would be playing at a different level.

  184. DRM

    January 28, 2011 at 10:58 am

    I have no idea why W&M left the SoCon, but I have a difficult time believing it was because of ASU's academic standards. After all, wasn't W&M in the SoCon at the same time ECU was? I think that's the case, but if not, oh well . . . there goes that line of thinking.

  185. football67

    January 28, 2011 at 12:03 pm

    App state offensive lineman commit Shaquille Counts senior highlights link
    check it out http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rWZaarC1AmY

  186. mockenburd

    January 28, 2011 at 5:35 pm

    I know it was only a video, but I thought Counts looked pretty impressive..wide base, pulling speed, liked to mix it up. One to keep an eye on.

  187. hapapp

    January 28, 2011 at 7:45 pm

  188. sideline

    January 29, 2011 at 3:20 am

    Given the fact that we are competitive with most of the CUSA schools now (with 22 fewer scholarships), I feel strongly that we can be a top tier CUSA school in a few years.
    Comment by MIDWEST 01.28.11 @ 11:05 am

    This is the kind of crap that makes people look stupid. " Given the fact….." Now how many CUSA schools have we played? How can it be a given that we are competitive with most of the schools when we haven't played them?

  189. yosef83

    January 29, 2011 at 4:58 am

    bcoach – my sentiments exactly. This blog used to be a lot of fun but midwest has singlehandedly ruined it. I've got better things to do with my time.

    sideline – good observation and I agree with what you're saying. You can argue all you want but he's never wrong.

  190. MIDWEST

    January 29, 2011 at 4:59 am

    SIDELINE (not to be confused with someone that actually gets in the game):

    Let's see…we played ECU with our 3rd string QB (in a year in which they were a top team) and held our own.

    We are much more suitable to CUSA than we are the dogs of the SoCon. What makes you look stupid is thinking that we should be in a conference with Gardner Webb, Presb, Samford, and the Citadel (you know, the future of the SoCon) Evolve, cave man, evolve.

    sideline- I'm not sure if you understand the concept of an opinion blog.

  191. sideline

    January 29, 2011 at 9:30 am

    I understand opinion. You throw out things like they are fact. Lets see we played ECU…. One game one team one time and we lost. You called it a fact that we were competitive with the teams in CUSA. Then you make up crap that none of us ever said. You are a mouth with nothing above or below it. Another question big shot. What sideline have you ever been on besides pop warner. I have been on the sideline for highschool, ASU, and NFL. One other thing mouth. I would have the balls to punch out a guy who tried to take a 7 year old kids head off with a basketball. But then that is the biggest sideline you have ever been on so you probably didn't want to loose your position.

  192. APPStateIllinois

    January 29, 2011 at 10:55 am

    Chubbs just de-committed from ASU to go to Wake. Most not care about playing for a winner.

  193. hapapp

    January 29, 2011 at 12:10 pm

    Actually, he reversed himself yesterday. I posted a link at 11:45 last night.

    For those counting, he was only one of two of our recruits that had precious stars beside his name. One can assume getting the FBS offer topped playing for ASU. Of course, there could have been other factors involved.

  194. carbine

    January 29, 2011 at 1:42 pm

    Maybe he got the idea from somewhere that playing for ASU put him in the "JV" or the "Bush League." Now where would he have heard that?

  195. MIDWEST

    January 29, 2011 at 4:46 pm

    You market yourself as you to are become not as you were 20 years ago.

    Please put me in charge of recruiting. ABC- Always be closing. Apparently, someone didn't qualify Chubbs or failed to throw in a trial close along the way. When MIDWEST has a fish on the line, it seldom gets away.

  196. sideline

    January 30, 2011 at 7:45 am

    That kid is not the only one in your kids bb league who has been hit in the head. You spend your life talking about what a crap division we play in and you want to be in charge of recruiting. Have you ever posted when you are sober?

  197. carbine

    January 30, 2011 at 1:21 pm

    If only he could blame it on alcohol.

  198. hapapp

    January 30, 2011 at 2:29 pm

    Apparently three star LB Brandon McGowan has committed to ASU.

    Also LB Jamal Ware. Both are Atlanta area players.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tYZwIlPGw2c

  199. MIDWEST

    January 30, 2011 at 3:35 pm

    I speak the truth.

  200. tojo

    January 30, 2011 at 4:23 pm

  201. hapapp

    January 30, 2011 at 4:38 pm

  202. MIDWEST

    January 30, 2011 at 5:36 pm

    With a name like Bobo, he's gotta be good. Otherwise, Bobo the Clown references will entertaining us all.

  203. DRM

    January 31, 2011 at 6:24 am

    In the name game, we had Dino and Rico. Both were very productive on the defensive side.

    We've had Coco and, presumably, now we have this Bobo kid on the offensive side. I hope Bobo turns out to be more reliable than Coco was in must-have situations.

  204. football101

    January 31, 2011 at 8:58 am

    App state offensive lineman commit Shaquille Counts senior highlights link
    check it out
    I like it.!!!!!! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rWZaarC1AmY

  205. mockenburd

    January 31, 2011 at 12:16 pm

    Liked the Counts video. Wide stance, speed to pull, aggressive. Don't know what a pancake block is,but it looked like he "pancaked" his share on the video.

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