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Invite pursuit in holding pattern, CAA ups fee

Nothing new to report, reallyConference USA completed its league meeting this week. No new invites announced, but future membership expansion is possible long-term.

App would love a slot, of course.

C-USA’s board of directors wrapped up its annual meeting on Monday and agreed to continue its review of further expansion opportunities.

“Obviously, we’d like to be in that consideration,” Charlie Cobb, ASU’s athletics director, said on Wednesday. “We’ll do everything we can to continue that push.”

Meanwhile, the CAA also wrapped up its league pow-wow. Among its actions, raising the exit fee for programs looking to jet.

It’s gone from $250,000 to …/double take/whistles$1M.

Translation – any school we add better expect to stick around a looooooong time. And new schools are coming.

Expansion was a primary topic, and he said that much of the research and vetting has been done. He expects announcements to trickle out over the next several weeks, as various schools and their governing boards sign off on invitations.

Yeager said that there is no target number of schools, either for full membership or football only.


  1. AppUSMC

    June 14, 2012 at 7:54 am



    June 14, 2012 at 8:10 am

    Status quo is right. Sad, but true.

    No vision, no plan, no ability to cut deals…Dumb.

  3. hapapp

    June 14, 2012 at 8:24 am

    "Of course, (interested) schools don't dictate timelines to conferences. The leagues do."

    Some of our folks would do well to understand that we are at the mercy of the conferences. We can't invite ourselves. It is easy to rant and rave about our lack of an invite at this point but no one here knows what has taken place to this point in our negotiations. The doors haven't been shut and our administration is still pursuing an FBS home. The process continues and we as fans need to be patient and let those with the responsibility continue their work. I firmly believe that by this time next year we will have a new conference home. I can guarantee you the desire and the drive on the part of the administration to accomplish that is as strong as anyone on this board.

  4. AB

    June 14, 2012 at 8:31 am

    Good post hap. Anyone that has talked to Cobb or Beasley the last month knows we are being proactive reaching out verbally as well as with stats to back why we are the right choice. The effort is there, the education process of what App brings will continue.


    June 14, 2012 at 8:31 am

    You either make things happen for yourself or you let things happen to you.



    June 14, 2012 at 8:39 am

    This should have been done 3-4 years ago, not now. Good intentions are not good enough. The deal needs to get done. Make it rain or resign.

  7. hapapp

    June 14, 2012 at 8:49 am

    App football (FH and XC as well) garners academic recognition.

    Congrats to ASU football as well as FH and XC.

    Note ASU's company in football and the fact that we are the only one at the FCS level that offers 63 scholarships.

    Three Appalachian State University athletic programs — men’s cross country, field hockey and football — have earned NCAA Public Recognition Awards for ranking among the top 10 percent nationally in their respective sports in the latest multi-year Academic Progress Rate (APR) scores, the NCAA announced on Thursday.

    The APR provides a real-time look at a program’s academic success each semester by tracking the academic progress of each scholarship student-athlete. The APR formula accounts for eligibility, retention and graduation and provides a measure of each team’s academic performance. Programs earning the latest Public Recognition Awards have compiled multi-year APRs that rank among the top 10 percent in their respective sports over a four-year period beginning in 2007-08 and ending in 2010-11.

    The award is a first for Appalachian State’s football program and the first for any Southern Conference gridiron squad since Furman and Wofford earned the distinction in 2006-07. Of the 14 NCAA Division I FCS schools to receive the prestigious recognition on Thursday, Appalachian is the only to offer a full allotment of 63 football scholarships and the lone public institution. Eight of the 14 hail from the academically esteemed Ivy League. The Mountaineers have boasted the SoCon’s highest APR for four-straight years (2007-08 through 2010-11) while also winning the conference championship each season under head coach Jerry Moore.

  8. MJT

    June 14, 2012 at 9:15 am

    I usually think MIDWEST is out of control and off target with some of the comments, but as I think more and more about what's happened around us in terms of teams moving to FBS and us pretty much staying "status quo," I tend to agree with his statements about bringing in someone to sell us. This is embarrassing and I have several friends from other schools that simply can't believe what App is doing and why we haven't moved to FBS.

    I'm tired of even reading about this topic, mostly because of how sad it truly is. I'm also worried about donations and fan support at App if we continue to remain status quo.

  9. Appgrad11

    June 14, 2012 at 10:04 am

    Midwest is right. We would already be in the sunbelt if it wasn't for Cobb

  10. Fish

    June 14, 2012 at 10:24 am

    Coach Pollard is leaving for Duke!

  11. Jamey

    June 14, 2012 at 10:32 am

    I was fully expecting to hear that Pollard was being hired away quickly by a bigger program. WCU went through the same thing 10 years or so ago when Tennessee hired their coach. Pollard deserves it 100%. Honestly, I am shocked that he would go to Duke of all places. I am a Duke fan, but their baseball program is not much to write home about.

  12. ASU-LAW

    June 14, 2012 at 10:41 am


  13. Jack

    June 14, 2012 at 10:47 am

    Not surprised at all. If pollard could succeed at app he surely will at Duke with better academics, more money, better weather, better conference, etc. Get used to it folks, app is a stepping stone, not a destination for anybody.

  14. GW

    June 14, 2012 at 10:51 am

    The Wataga Democret is announcing Duke to hire Chris Pollard as baseball coach,,,,, if that is so App definitely need to get Carl Lancaster from Mt Olive ,a great coach,another Mike Fox,if I'm not mistaken he is an App State grad and ex App State baseball player

  15. App97,00

    June 14, 2012 at 11:44 am

    Anyone know why Kalik Barnes is not listed on the 2-deep chart, not even 3 deep? Is it an injury? I thought that many folks were thinking that he was the second coming.

  16. appthunder90

    June 14, 2012 at 11:53 am

    kalik is not on the 2 or 3 deep because he is not going to be playing this season

  17. App97,00

    June 14, 2012 at 12:28 pm

    Why is he not playing?

  18. carbine

    June 14, 2012 at 1:36 pm

    All the salesmanship in the world can't alter the facts of our relatively small and middle-class pool of alumni, our limited regional appeal, and our lack of a lucrative TV market. The conferences aren't stupid, and they can't be bamboozled by sleezy salesmen in cheap suits. Or expensive ones, for that matter.

    You want ASU to move up; change the facts on the ground.

  19. Appthunder90

    June 14, 2012 at 3:07 pm

    Cant say any more


    June 14, 2012 at 4:39 pm

    F-ing BS. We have stupid ass hicks trying to promote our beloved school. Time to hire someone who is worth a damn to get the job done!!!

    I'm sick of this mentality. It's part of the reason we are running in place.


    June 14, 2012 at 4:40 pm

    The case these idiots cannot seem to make is that most of our alumni don't live in Boone. F-ing idiots.

  22. Brett

    June 14, 2012 at 5:30 pm

    ^^Midwest, you just hit the nail on the head. Probably close to 0% of App alumni live in the Boone. I love it there, but it's a college town and tourists. Most live in the Triangle & Charlotte are. What does Boone's small market have anything to do with? Short- sighted

  23. GoApps73

    June 14, 2012 at 7:13 pm

    Midmind, please hold down the profanity if you are able.

  24. carbine

    June 14, 2012 at 8:26 pm

    So what if "most of our alumni don't live in Boone?" There is no spot on this planet where you can draw enough of them together to fill a real life, honest-to-God, FBS stadium. We just aren't there yet. And the conferences know it. They also know that there is no TV market that would prefer to see the Apps play over the many other local FBS options that are already out there. Charlotte is about as good as it gets for us, but they are about to have their own FBS team, and besides it's already overrun with UNC, Duke, State, and Wake Forest alumni. And that's only half the market–the other half are transplated yankees who will always opt to watch teams from up north or the midwest. NC ain't Idaho, and Boone ain't Boise–people around here already have a ton of options for TV football.

    Face it folks, it just ain't gonna happen.

  25. carbine

    June 14, 2012 at 8:28 pm

    GoApps73, what you asked ain't gonna happen either–more's the pity.

  26. Yogi86

    June 15, 2012 at 3:05 am

    What happened to Kalik Barnes?

  27. bcoach

    June 15, 2012 at 5:04 am

    Those who can't do, bitch. Why look at facts when you can bitch about sombody else. It has become VERY clear that some enjoy bitching MUCH more than watching football.


    June 15, 2012 at 5:27 am

    Again, Carbine, you are wrong. Did you see how many fans we took to ECU and Florida? The last thing we should be worried about is our fans showing up at an FBS game.

    Not only were we not prepared, but CUSA haven't done their homework if they're banking on CCC fans to travel to ANY road games. They'll be lucky to draw people to home games.

    We have a rich history, great academics, outstanding fans, located in a beautiful resort area, and we've been known to play a little football. Make it rain.

  29. Dr. Gonzo

    June 15, 2012 at 5:52 am

    "there is no spot on this planet where you can draw enough of them together to fill a real life, honest-to-God, FBS stadium. "

    Are you speaking of 110k capacity big 12 stadiums or the 20-40k stadiums of our future FBS conference mates in the low-end of the FBS? If the answer is the former, that was a terrible spin job. We already outdraw a good amount of schools in CUSA, SBC, MAC ect. All of whom have "real" FBS stadiums.

    Thankfully, your nonsensical anti-progress attitude only reflects your own self-centered desires (getting a seat at the 50 for cheaper and being able to park close to the stadium if we stay in the saying FCS) than what this University is capable of.

    We have one market in common with UNCC in which we currently have a much larger and more active fan/alumni base. Their media impact ect stops there. We also bring national brand recognition and several other markets. People will watch if what ever conference in which we land has a TV deal. It's as simple as that.

    "our relatively small and middle-class pool of alumni"

    Our alumni base is extremely young. As all these COB grads get older and richer, we will see a substantial rise in Yosef Club donations. Unless of course your defeatist attitude becomes the dominant mantra. Then I suppose we will stay in the every-worsening FCS, donations will dry up, everyone will forget how great we were and what could have been while you, Carbine will be sitting happily at the 50 yard line with a few hundred fans smiling as we play Gardner Webb and our other awesome conference mates.

    FBS or bust.


    June 15, 2012 at 6:34 am

    And folks, that's why he's a doctor. Nice post.

    As for our "middle class" alumni, we'd be doing a whole lot better if the guy in the white house would get booted in November. He is a complete and utter disaster.

    Clinton years= 5.21%

    Bush years= 5.27%

    Obama years= 9.36%

    National Debt:

    2008= $9 trillion

    2012= $15.6 trillion

  31. Dr. Gonzo

    June 15, 2012 at 7:02 am

    I'm not a doctor actually. I'm a 23-year-old marketing/PR practitioner and I'm applying to law schools in the coming months.

    "Dr. Gonzo" is in reference to Hunter S Thompson.


    June 15, 2012 at 7:03 am

    First numbers above are unemployment numbers, by the way.

  33. NWA

    June 15, 2012 at 8:26 am

    "We have one market in common with UNCC in which we currently have a much larger and more active fan/alumni base."

    Negative – Not Larger. I will give you it might be more active presently, but that is ONLY because of football. Let us kick off and let's see what we can do.

    I will also say that with our size the number of Charlote grads will explode and our also young alumni base will grow their careers. I wish App the best in their quest, but make sure you paint the picture correctly. You are maxed out space wise, which is great for academics but is a challenge as you try to grow your base.

  34. NWA

    June 15, 2012 at 8:31 am

    Would also help you if even 25% of your App fans in Charlotte knew app was playing a basketball game during the basketball season instead of letting me know what the score of the Chapel Hill game is.

  35. Dr. Gonzo

    June 15, 2012 at 8:38 am

    Do we need to repeat this dance? Yes your alum group in the area is larger, but it means very little if they're all ambivalent to your school and it's athletic endeavors.

    I'll say it again: UNCC offers nothing in terms of college experience. Therefore, the vast majority of alumni care little to give back or keep up with it. Add something besides franchise restaurants to that bad part of town near Concord Mills (the "University area") and maybe the other 95% of graduates won't be so transient.

    I'm sure the App fans in Charlotte that didn't go to the ECU game were counting down the minutes till football season, not keeping up with the Holes game.


    June 15, 2012 at 9:00 am

    NWA has a point. If our fans would truly support App State sports instead of the Tarholes, we would probably make more progress. Get off the fence and make a decision for App today!!

  37. NWA

    June 15, 2012 at 9:21 am

    You said larger – I was just countering that point.

    We don't need to go back through the traditional experience vs. what we offer. I will give you going to Charlotte, or any urban university is very different than going to a small college town. Each has benefits and unlike you I am not going to run down Boone like you have Charlotte. You can't see through your hatred enough to be objective.

    Midwest you hit the nail on the head. You all fight the same thing we do, only at least you had football! If both App and Charlotte can get their students, alums and fanbases to be committed to their school and not some ACC garbage they grew up with it would be a huge boon for each school. I am hoping that football on campus helps us in that department.

    It is easy to think there isn't a problem when you see people on a messageboard, but we are the 1% who live and die for their school – if App and Charlotte had more of us it would be better for each.

  38. Dr. Gonzo

    June 15, 2012 at 9:46 am

    Yes I did say larger. My mistake. As far as "what you offer," it's with an objective outlook that I say you don't offer much at all in the way of college experience of any kind, not just "traditional." Charlotte is a cool city (I know this, I was born in raised in the 704), but a UNCC experience is the exact same as a CPCC experience.

    Take NC State for example. State is also considered by many to be in a "urban" setting. Their campus' proximity to Raleigh is comparable to UNCC/Charlotte, closer in fact. What State also has is the Hillsboro Street area. That area is "college town-esk." The campus/area has a unique feel and instills a lot of attachment to the school in NCSU students.

    UNCC on the other hand has nothing of that like other than quick access to 85 (ie a quick 15-20 minute drive to downtown. I'm not saying it's a terrible school and it's students are doomed to eternal boredom, but if you're looking for things that strengthen a student's bond to their university, you guys fall well short.

  39. Dr. Gonzo

    June 15, 2012 at 9:48 am

    And I agree about UNC and the eternal struggle both our schools endure with regard to t-shirt infidelity and duel-fanship ect. 15 universities obeying the graduates of just one.

    If there's one thing I can agree with UNCC fans, its how much I hate the Tar Holes.

  40. Oral Roberts

    June 15, 2012 at 9:51 am

    "There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics." Mark Twain

    MW's post about unemployment rates is an example. The unemployment rate in Bush's final month as President was 8.5%. Employment under Obama's watch is no better, but to ignore the spike in umemployment and deep recession in the final year of Bush's term in order to more negatively portray Obama is ignorant.

  41. ASU-LAW

    June 15, 2012 at 10:06 am

    Save your ranting for a political blog.

  42. Oral Roberts

    June 15, 2012 at 10:11 am

    In the future I'll make sure I check with you before posting to ensure it meets your standards for acceptable posts. In the meantime, buzz off.

  43. NWA

    June 15, 2012 at 10:23 am

    Agreed Gonzo – our setting thus far has been a challenge. I would argue that it is to some degree worse than CPCC because there you are in the middle of the city. It has taken some time but our incorporation into the city is happening. Ironically though that which is our challenge is also our greatest strength. With our massive campus size enabling us to grow to a major size and that size equals money. If we were in the middle of Charlotte we would have run into the same problems App is or that NC State in the 90s when they had to open cent campus. That size also means it is easier to fund FBS football with student fees than it is for you guys. Which means we are not as reliant on the donor base, all though hopefully football increases it. I would suspect the demands on your donor base will be quite high to make the FBS move to keep your student fees in check.

    I am really hoping that the arrival of the light rail really changes the university. NoDa stands to blow up as it will be the first small townish area the train will stop at from the U. Things like that and football should mean that the next 10 years of UNC Charlotte will be transformational as to how our students views us, how our community works with us and the connections our alumni have.

    As I said it all depends on what you are looking for. I grew up in a small southern town – I visited Boone and said no way – it was just like home, but that was just based on what I was looking for. While I certainly had a different experience than my friends at App or UNC or NC State it was no less exciting.

    And the biggest thing is what Midwest said – you all have a huge and active student/alumni/fan base for football. If you can get those people to go all in on App 24/7 then I think you can make an even more solid arguement on your FBS dreams. There is no reason you all shouldnt have 3,500 people at your basketball games. I mean really what else is there to do in Boone on a weeknight in Jan? That is a captive audience.

  44. Dr. Gonzo

    June 15, 2012 at 10:35 am

    " I mean really what else is there to do in Boone on a weeknight in Jan?"

    I believe most of the students spend that time snowboarding or binge driving. And for the love of God I hope not both.

    Good post, all in all. One thing that UNCC has that's undeniable is potential. The light rail will greatly enhance the experience, but until you inject some character into the University area, you will always fight a losing battle with transient alumni.

  45. Dr. Gonzo

    June 15, 2012 at 10:35 am

    binge drinking*

  46. bcoach

    June 15, 2012 at 5:37 pm

    then there is always snow driving and binge boarding

  47. appthunder90

    June 15, 2012 at 8:05 pm

    or studying

  48. Carbine

    June 15, 2012 at 8:51 pm

    Dr. Gonzo, we pack our own house, but how many fans do we bring to nearby Southern Confrence stadiums? We don't travel anywhere near as well as FBS conferences expect, and it's just wishful thinking to believe we'll do better at the next level, especially since most of our away games will be MUCH further away.

    Your analysis of the Charlotte TV market is equally off-base. Why would any Charlotte station want to carry the ASU-Tulsa game when they could have UNCC-anybody? The idea that people in Charlotte are suddenly going to become interested in ASU football because we've joined a bottom-tier FBS conference is frankly ludicrous. We have NO significant TV market, and the few insignificant ones we could appear in are not at all attractive to any FBS conference.

    And by the way, I usually hike in to the stadium from the Walmart lot, and spend some time hoofing it around campus and along main street before each game. I enjoy the walk, and I can afford to sit anywhere I damn well please, and will continue to do so no matter what level of football we play at. If anyone on this board has a "defeatist attitude," it's guys like you and Midwest who carp and whine about FCS football.

    We are FCS, we are likely to remain FCS, and if that proves to be the case we will be just fine. If you and Midwest don't like it you have plenty of other options for your fall Saturdays.


    June 16, 2012 at 4:43 am

    We don't bring many fans to away FCS games, because most of the teams suck. Would we travel to ECU, ODU, Marshall, JMU if we were all in the same conference? I think you know the answer to that question.

    Stop making excuses and make it rain. Yes, those subscribe to the status quo are lazy, selfish, defeatists. Like Gonzo said, most of the anti-FBS crowd just want to keep their parking spots close to the stadium so they don't have to walk their lazy ass an extra few steps, even it it means watching ECU at the Rock.

  50. Dr. Gonzo

    June 16, 2012 at 6:36 am

    Wait…We don't travel well?!

    Good. I actually thought you were an App fan. Thanks for showing your ignorance and making me feel better about your piss-poor, delusional, defeatest attitude. If that's your stance, it's clear you very rarely travel to our road games. And MW's response is also pretty indicative of how much he knows about how App fans travel. (please don't lump me with him just because I'm a progressive App fan thats ready for the inevitable)

    We travel very well Carbine, and don't question my credintials by that claim because I haven't missed an away game (or home game of course) in two years. That is why ECU charges more for the App game than for any conference game. That is why we bring 2-3 times the amount of fans to Greenville than any other CUSA school. That is why we have a home field advantage at Elon. And that is why we've set Chatty's attendence record in December 05, 06 and 07.

    Oh you think it will get worse with travel? Take a look at the 09 Richmond game in Richmond. I have it on DVD if you'd like to borrow it. 6 hours from Boone and we still accounted for about 45% of the fans in that stadium, in the freezing cold snow.

    I could keep going with examples. We travel better than any SoCon team and better than most CUSA teams.

    That is an absolutley aroneous statement. Absolutely false.

    I love FCS football. I just think it's in our best interest to move. Don't put words in my mouth kind sir.


    June 16, 2012 at 8:37 am


    I was referring to places like Samford…places where we have no interest. Please note that I KNOW we travel as a fan base. I have been to LSU, Michigan, Florida, and ECU and there were plenty of App fans there. I couldn't believe how many App fans were at the Florida game.

  52. Carbine

    June 16, 2012 at 1:30 pm

    Actually the Elon games are a perfect example of what I'm talking about. It's a short drive down the road from Boone, right off a major highway and centrally located in our home state. In the last several years the Elon game has been one of the most important on our schedule, and how many of our fans show up? About half of a very, very small (by FBS standards) stadium. That's not bad, and by FCS standards it's actually quite good, but it's nowhere near enough to impress any FBS conference selection committee. We look at all the black and gold in the stands and say "Wow, aren't we something to bring all these fans!". FBS decision-makers look at that and think, "pretty good for lower division, but I don't see them making the trip to Tulsa every other year."

    You can point to all the examples you think support your view you want to, but the decision-makers at the FBS level aren't buying it. If they were, our phone would be ringing. My "attitude" whatever you think it is (and you frankly have no idea) has no impact on their decision whatsoever, nor does yours. If we ever get an invite it will be based on their analysis of the cold hard facts, nothing more or less. And so far the facts on the ground are that we are not an attractive enough option for any FBS conference to extend an invite. And that's fine with me because I too love FCS football and think we are fine where we are.

  53. Watauga72

    June 16, 2012 at 7:36 pm

    Carbine, how many fans fron any North Carolina team are making the trip to Tulsa, North Texas, or UT-Arlington? Certainly not UNC-charlotte fans. Doubt that was a factor in the invitation to UNCC vs. ASU.

  54. appthunder90

    June 16, 2012 at 8:31 pm

    assuming conference usa pursues expansion to 16 are there not going to be east and west divisions? probably wouldnt spend very much time at north texas. and ut-arlington doesnt field football at present.

  55. Carbine

    June 17, 2012 at 10:14 am

    Watagua72, you're right about those schools; if they ever appeared on the Tarheels schedule they probably wouldn't be the ones fans planned to travel to. But I believe the Tarheels do travel well to other ACC schools, including those as far away as Boston and Miami. And of course, UNC is a big regional TV draw as well.

    The point is we've got to bring something of value to a conference if we ever expect to get an invite. They aren't going to invite us just because we think we are so great. So what value do we add? Big TV market? Large regional fan base? Guaranteed sell-out of visiting team section? Natural or regional rivalries that pump up home crowd interest and attendance? Easy access for traveling team with cheap accommodations, and low travel costs? One could make an argument in favor of some of these factors, but add it all up and it comes to zero invites so far.

    And all the "salesmanship" in the world won't change that one bit.

  56. hapapp

    June 17, 2012 at 10:20 am

    My VT friends tell me ASU brought as many or more fans to Blacksburg as other ACC schools do. They were very impressed with our turnout last year. There may valid reasons for CUSA refusing our entreaties to this point but how well our fanbase travels is not one of them.

  57. Watauga72

    June 17, 2012 at 10:43 am

    Agree we have built in disadvantages when it comes to attracting a conference, but we've got to realistically look at with whom we're competing for limited spots. Our competition is not UNC, or any ACC/SEC school, so comparing our fanbase support to any of these is illogical. Having attended the national championship games, i've seen our fans travel will for a game within reasonable driving distance and against a good opponent. I believe we'd support games within a 6-8 hour driving range against FBS opponents as well or better than any of the schools currently looking to move up to FBS.

  58. Apptke134

    June 17, 2012 at 12:32 pm

    Could this be a CUSA possibility? CUSA may eventually go to 18 members to create 2 divisions of 9 members. The west side is already in place with 4 Texas schools, UAB, SoMiss, Tulsa, Tulane and UTEP. The east side currently has ECU, ODU, FIU, MU and UNCC. The east needs to add 4 schools. They may add MTSU(Nashville market), or Ga. State(Atlanta market). Let's say they add 2 market schools(MTSU and Ga. St). If they then add ASU and JMU they would have a very travel friendly conference. A poster wrote somewhere that 400 miles usually determines weather you fly or drive. All east members will need to fly to FIU. All of the other members in this senero will be able to drive to ASU as we are less than 400 miles from these schools. Bus charters are much less costly than flights. All of a sudden our location is an advantage. The only schools that will need to fly to JMU other than FIU are MTSU and GaSt. ASU and JMU will basically reduce travel cost for all the east division schools except FIU, and they have to fly everywhere. All OLY teams will also be able to drive instead of chartering flights. This should create a tremendous cost savings per team. The CUSA approach has been to improve bottom line by selecting schools in large media markets(basically free revenue).Why not make a good cost savings decision for a change to improve bottom line. This smaller footprint division also allows for more fan travel to away games which equates to more revenue. By the way, other schools mentioned on CUSA message board as potential new conference members, require much more air travel. These teams include, DU, UMASS, Ohio and Arkansas State.

  59. Carbine

    June 17, 2012 at 1:52 pm

    Good points, with one caveat: we may not be competing directly with ACC and SEC as regards travelling fans, but we definitely ARE trying to show that we can travel at an FBS level. So far we've shown we can out-travel only the lower tier of current FBS schools. I don't think that's going to be enough, considering all of our other disadvantages. Now if the phone rings tomorrow and it's the CUSA commissioner with an invite, then I'm wrong, about that and a lot of other things. But I'm not holding my breath waiting on that.

  60. Jack

    June 17, 2012 at 4:27 pm

    Carbine, thanks for making the point of telling us how well your Heels travel.

  61. NWA

    June 17, 2012 at 5:02 pm

    Apptke134 – All depends on how they make the split. USM and UAB currently are on the eastern side. They could add other western schools as well as a few eastern ones or slide UAB and USM over.

    I also expect FIU would like a FL trval partner.

    I honestly think that CUSA holds with what they got to see what happens with Clemson and FSU. If the ACC loses teams that is a big domino that could either cause CUSA to lose teams or the BE to split and lead to teams looking for a return home. CUSA would be wise to not add any more teams until after all this goes down. One way CUSA has openings to bring App and others in, the other fill up the conference and leaves App out. We shall see.

  62. Carbine

    June 17, 2012 at 6:10 pm

    Jack, "my" heels are the ones on my feet. And they do travel well, never failing to get me to the Apps game in time for kickoff. The only reason I mentioned the Tarheels is that someone had commented on North Carolina FBS teams, I picked the Heels as an example. Coulda been State or Duke or ECU–I don't care about any of them.

    I wonder why you do?

  63. bcoach

    June 18, 2012 at 2:45 am

    We travel well to that one game per year. It is our big money game. How many times a year will we do that? How many will go back to Michigan?Just a question.

  64. Apps_Aj11

    June 18, 2012 at 4:44 am

    In terms of traveling, I went to every game, home and away, in 2011 save Citadel. I was impressed with the numbers we brought on the road especially in "down" year. The fact that we had more fans at Wofford and Furman than the respective home teams was crazy to me. Also, from what I hear, the App game is always supposed to be those schools' "big" game. I wonder what it looks like at Furman when Samford comes to town.

  65. Dr. Gonzo

    June 18, 2012 at 5:21 am

    We travel very well to every single away game. The fact that a few people are questioning that is alarming. Some of you people really never get out to the games do you?

    As was stated earlier, there are legitimate reasons to doubt our FBS capability, but traveling fans is NOT one of them. It's one of our many strong points in fact.

  66. Roachgone

    June 18, 2012 at 5:42 am

    Carbine, DO YOU WEAR SOCKS??

  67. asumike83

    June 18, 2012 at 6:04 am

    I went to every away game except for Wofford last season. The only road conference game I recall that we did not outnumber the home fans was in Charleston against The Citadel and even there, I'd say we had about 5K of the 15K in attendance.

    We packed the visitor's side and then some against Furman and Elon, outnumbering the home fans in both cases. From what I could tell watching on TV, we at least matched the home fans in Spartanburg as well. If we bring 5K-8K to see us play Furman, Wofford, Elon and The Citadel, why wouldn't we travel as well or better to see regional FBS opponents?

    Of course, the numbers would be much less if the opponent was out of our region but if the location is within driving distance of Boone, Charlotte and Raleigh, we will bring a strong contingent.

  68. bcoach

    June 18, 2012 at 6:46 am

    No reason for alarm. It is a very legitimate question to ask. It is a question that the consultants never asked. Now I am not arguing about whether we will travel or not for two reasons. One is that we are going to move. That decision has been made but the other reason is just curiosity, a curiosity the consultant didn't have. When moving to fbs and the ticket prices going to around $45 and maybe another plane ride, will we travel as well? Now before you get excited it really has no bearing on an invite as the real deal is TV but it is just a curiosity. Just something to talk about with no sports going on.

    The other insinuation is that if you ask the question you have not traveled. I can only speak for myself but I think I have been to my fair share over the last 19 years. Now I don't really blame some of you for not being at some of these games as preschool classes sometimes conflict so you had to stay back with the sitter. I also don’t blame the folks for not traveling before the championships when we didn’t have 8K? traveling to away games. It was their choice and they are still allowed to be fans. Actually I guess I don’t blame folks for not doing what they don’t want to do when it come to being a sports fan.

  69. NWA

    June 18, 2012 at 12:04 pm

    Thought you all might be interested because it talks about CUSA expansion and what not:

  70. Oral Roberts

    June 18, 2012 at 1:02 pm

    Since I live in Oklahoma I'd love to see ASU link into a conference in which they'd play some games in the Southwest. Would be able to make more than one game per year if that were the case.

  71. Carbine

    June 18, 2012 at 7:05 pm

    Some of you guys are just in your own little world. I've been to many games at Wofford, and I've never seen more ASU fans there than home teamers. Same for Citadel, Elon, & Furman. The NC games at Chattanooga were different, of course, but those were pretty special cases. Maybe some of you ought to get out of the visitors' section and wander over to the other side of the stadium from time to time to get a better perspective.

  72. bcoach

    June 19, 2012 at 6:34 am

    He has a point. I never really sat there and counted but I can't think of a game where we took 8,000 fans. But as I said I didn't really count any of them either. With that said three cheers for the school that gave us 8,000 tickets(:

  73. Dr. Gonzo

    June 19, 2012 at 6:52 am

    The only place we consistently outnumber home fans is Elon, but we do pack the away side of virtually every venue at which we play. We brought more to Richmond than they did in 09.

  74. bcoach

    June 19, 2012 at 8:21 am

    That is also true. They were also able to have tents at their tailgate and we were not allowed to put ours up. Their chancellor sucks.

  75. Dr. Gonzo

    June 19, 2012 at 9:22 am

    Elon has some piss poor game security staff. I felt like a second class citizen there. They went to every App fan in the end zone grass and forced them to kneel to watch the game while letting every Elon fan stand. We even had some Elon Trainer walk up and start talking smack to us from the field.

    The school is classless from top to bottom.

  76. Watauga72

    June 19, 2012 at 9:54 am

    We have had season tix at University of Oklahoma football for 15 years. Very few schools have >3k fans at any of the OU football games in Norman. If we have that many travel to games we're outperforming most big 12 schools. Good for us!

  77. bcoach

    June 19, 2012 at 3:21 pm

    Our travel numbers are a little inflated to say the least. We do travel well but not to the tune of 5-8 thousand on a regular basis.

  78. appdreamin

    June 20, 2012 at 8:13 am

    Visiting team attendance at OU is probably more a function of how many (how few, that is) tickets OU makes available to visitors, as opposed to visiting fans traveling poorly. That has no direct relevance to App fans traveling, however. As is the case with claims that we outdraw Montana by 5K for home games, the 8K estimate for fans traveling to most App away games is almost certainly overstated, and perhaps significantly so.

    Nevertheless, whatever number our typical traveling contingent represents, it is reasonable to assume it would be larger in many cases if the away team was a more attractive opponent–i. e., FBS-level as opposed to FCS. But we're unlikely to take many fans to Tulsa or other western schools, FBS or not.

  79. Watauga 72

    June 20, 2012 at 11:12 am

    OU reserves a section in the southeast corner as well as in the southern endzone for visiting schools. Most do not use their allocation and tix are returned to OU for sale. Some schools, such as Texas A&M, Texas Tech, and OSU certainly do travel well. Most, however, (Kansas, Iowa State, Baylor, and non-conference foes) do not.

  80. Watauga 72

    June 20, 2012 at 11:23 am

    Wonder how much our home attendance and travel base would suffer if our program slid to 6-5 or worse seasons? This has been discussed many times in connection with the move to FBS.

  81. Carbine

    June 20, 2012 at 11:33 am

    That's a great unknown now, isn't it? And it's not just an internal concern; an FBS conference would want some assurance that any team it takes in will not wind up in financial trouble due to falling attendance. We've been dominant at our level so long that we now have no recent experience with a struggling football program. Impossible to say how the fans will react if the losses pile up at the next level, and equally impossible to prove to any potential FBS conference.

  82. Appthunder90

    June 20, 2012 at 12:05 pm


    Just to play devils advocate a little bit,

    "an FBS conference would want some assurance that any team it takes in will not wind up in financial trouble due to falling attendance."

    It didn't seem to prevent c-USA from giving uncc the nod..

  83. NWA

    June 20, 2012 at 1:18 pm

    True but we also aren't having to live up to a winning past. We are a clean slate. Our fans are not going to be spoiled with wins the way yours are. We expect to be decent – but if we go 6-5 or 5-6 or 3-8 there won't be any sky is falling. Obviously we want to get better but no Charlotte fan is expecting to walk in and win off the bat. Now if we are still going 2-9 10 years from now that will be tough for any program to overcome – particularly one in Charlotte where there is plenty of other things to do.

    From reading this blog, AGS and a few other places it sounds like App folks would expect to waltz into FBS and keep on winning 9 and 10 games a season. If your entire fan base expects that it could certainly impact how they attend and support games.

    We are certainly still a risk, but our funding model does not depend on people attending games and our positives, market, size and past atheltic performance and conference afiliation overcome the risks.

  84. appthunder90

    June 20, 2012 at 1:29 pm


    all programs require paying fanbases. just because charlotte has the 25th(?) largest media market does not negate that. if fans arent willing to pay to attend in any substantial capacity, what assures you that they will be tuning in their televisions?

  85. Watauga72

    June 20, 2012 at 3:54 pm

    The UNCC invitation to CUSA shows that these conferences don't give a damn about program quality or fan support. They care about POTENTIAL tv sets and nothing else. No way UNCC EVER generates 20% of the interest in football that App State does. I made that % up. Seems to be a standard for msg boards!

  86. Appywho?

    June 20, 2012 at 4:29 pm

    C-USA asked Charlotte to join because:

    1) Its just a better school. (Just accept it)

    2) Who on God's earth wants Appy in their conference?

    I think the idea of having Boone's community college in our conference was vomit inducing and was glad it did not happen. Seriously most people I know still think Appy is a Div-II school and a border line community college. Get over it, you are not a real school! (See Div-II FCS Status)

  87. Watauga72

    June 20, 2012 at 4:45 pm

    Appywho, thank you for proving that UNCC has an open enrollment policy and will accept intellectually challenged students. Kudos to them and to you for overcoming your obvious handicap.

  88. Carbine

    June 20, 2012 at 5:33 pm

    AppyWho? must be their version of Midwest.

  89. asumike83

    June 20, 2012 at 5:37 pm

    I quite enjoy the constant irony of a guy who calls himself Appywho? and posts on every single thread on AppFan. By this genius logic, Harvard is not a real school either.

  90. NWA

    June 20, 2012 at 6:02 pm

    appthunder – I was just pointing out that with our expected growth to 35,000 students and the associated athletic fee that we are not as dependent on people attending games to make our budget work. Obviously we want to fill our stands and I expect we will. Just saying we don't have to have it sold out to make our funding plan work.

  91. asu7

    June 21, 2012 at 3:47 am

    Please schedule us concord!!!!!!! PLEASE!!!! Especially when you are classified FBS and you have more schollies than us.

  92. bcoach

    June 21, 2012 at 7:43 am

    If/when we have a season onder 500 things will tail off a little last game or so maybe/probably. Two years and things will get worse. Third year and the place will look like pre championship days. 12-15 will be a good crowd.

  93. bcoach

    June 21, 2012 at 7:44 am


  94. asu7

    June 21, 2012 at 9:21 am

    Two years of under 500 coaching will change.

  95. Dr. Gonzo

    June 21, 2012 at 9:22 am

    Boone's community college? I pretty sure CCC & TI is more academically prestigious than UNCC. Hell, I know CPCC is.

    There's no way Appywho is serious. If I was talking smack to a UNC fan, I'd avoid taking shots at UNC's academic standing because I'm not an idiot and thats clearly something they have on us. The distance between UNC/App and App/UNCC is pretty similar regarding academic prestige.

    Commenting on this site every single day and ceaselessly belittling us is one thing, but it progresses into insanity when he starts taking shots at our academics when it is universally accepted that App is harder to get in to/more prestigious. What a f***ing joke.

    C-USA invited UNCC to whore their conference name to every idiot box in the urban sprawl mecca known as the "greater Charlotte area" after losing other big markets, you fall right in line with the lack-luster academic institutions of the Marshall, ECU types and you are a former member with many important relationships. That is all. I accounted for everything.

    Your name/presence on Appfan is not only a laughable contradiction, it is one of the many indications you provide, showing us just how ignorant and dim-witted the UNCc fanbase really is.

    Thank you for your contributions mr. Appywho? Your comments reflect on your brood better than any eloquent description I could ever provide.

  96. Watauga 72

    June 21, 2012 at 10:48 am

    NWA, you've been a repectable poster so far so your input deserves response. Understand that a larger student body should yield higher student fees to finance FBS football. No issue there. However, at some point broadcast tv people will want evidence that their money is well spent in the number of TV sets tuned to a game. There is no history of football sucess or following at UNCC, and I suspect that without early success the program will wallow in mediocrity and low attendance/ratings for the foreseeable future. Prior to our recent success you could argue that we were in the same boat, however we have fielded a program for a long time and there was some support in place. UNCC is dropping immediately into competition with the big boys…for ASU it is a step up but we've had plenty of practice and experience in playing on a larger stage than UNCC. Please do not interpret this as a put down to UNCC….not intended to be so. It's frustrating from our perspective when CUSA would rather take a chance on a totally unknown over a proven resource.

  97. bcoach

    June 21, 2012 at 1:57 pm

    TV. It is just plain all about TV and contracts are written for conferences not individual teams. ND is the exception. That means as long as you get in you are in. They gamble that the Charlotte market will work for them. If it does not pan out at one school they still get their money for the life of the contract. UNCC has nothing to lose and everything to gain. TV folks are not stupid they study before they gamble. CUSA is not taking the chance the TV people are. If you think that CUSA is not talking to the TV people BEFORE they give out an invite you are mistaken. You can blame Charlie, Peacock, CUSA, or anyone you want but other than the TV people you are wrong. They don’t need some high powered marketing firm to tell them anything. They know demographics and they do their homework. Just like the ESPN man said “Wait till they think the TV potential is maxed out then you will get your invite”. You don’t have to like it but you are going to have to accept it. We can rag on UNCC till we turn blue (dark blue I hope) and it will not change a thing. We will get our shot when they feel they have maxed out the TV potential.

    I understand what Watauga 72 is saying about a proven resource and in that respect we are, but when it comes to TV market we are not that proven resource. What they are left with is a gamble on who would have the bigger market. They didn't think it was us.

  98. NWA

    June 22, 2012 at 7:43 am

    Watauga 72 & bcoach –

    You are both right. I was just stating that our funding model doesn't require that we sell out our games, not that it isn't important for us and the conference to do so. A losing program in Charlotte will be very difficult to deal with because there are so many other options for people to spend there money on here. The good news is that with 5,000 FSLs (which pretty much promise those season tickets are sold), 7500 tickets to students and the 2000 or so ticket the conference requires that is already in the 15k range. Now we are adding 5-10k temp seats so obviously we want to see those full, looks better on TV and helps CUSA know they made the right choice. They are taking a chance on us, but as bcoach says it is an educated one.

    As far as being competitive in FBS – it will be interesting to see how this plays out. We are not really having to transform a roster to FBS, we will have one from the word go. Now the question is will that work out? We could get quality lower level FBS talent and blow through our first 3 years and come in guns blazing when we hit CUSA fulltime or we struggle getting the talent and struggle in FCS, which would be a very bad sign when we transition. It will be a fun ride.

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