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Will they or won’t they

Sing it with us ...Late last week it was announced that the CAA is on the hunt within the SoCon.

Reported targets? App State, Davidson and College of Charleston.

In terms of competition, all three make sense. App is a football power. Davidson and CofC are bball forces.

Geographically, maybe not. The CAA is primarily a northeastern league, with only a couple teams (for now) below the Virginia state line – UNC Wilmington and soon-to-depart Georgia State. Travel costs will be discussed, no doubt.

The Boone paper was quick to call the Mountaineer AD office. The sports info director is quoted as saying, “There are no new developments in Appalachian’s ongoing pursuit of a conference that sponsors FBS football.”

Of course, that depends on what the meaning of “are” .. er .. is.

Davidson and CofC both remain quiet, at least on the published news front.

With regard to the cat teams, the question seems to be whether any potential increase in revenues outweighs the travel cost. (We also add that we doubt McKilljoy’s ego would allow him to go from big fish to medium fish. No way)

The CAA is becoming known as a multi-bid team to the NCAAs. The more teams that go, the more money for the league. Given that the SoCon is a traditional one-team league, a move means a chance for more revenue.

If Davidson and CofC bolt, the absences would seem to benefit App State …. kinda. Someone has to win the league title, and getting rid of two respectable RPI programs makes that road a bit easier for everyone.

Is there any reason to think App State would entertain a CAA move? We doubt it.

We get the impression athletics is truly in FBS or bust mode. It would be a massive blow to the ego to make what would be a lateral move. There’s also that crazy new exit fee initiated by the CAA. You go there, you’re there to stay.

It does seem that the CAA is desperate for teams now. If the SoConers say no thanks, the invite machine goes elsewhere.

Meanwhile, App State and Stink look to leave the SoCon ASAP. We don’t see any announcements coming anytime soon, which leaves the SoCon in a tight spot.

Sure, the CAA doesn’t poach your teams, but it will probably nab decent programs from elsewhere. When the Mountaineers and Eagles go, the replacements will have to come from the CAA’s picked through pile.

That, more than whether three schools could leave now, should be worrying the SoCon.


  1. RadioFan

    June 28, 2012 at 6:48 pm

    $250,000 I think is the SoCon exit fee if you give two years notice.

  2. RadioFan

    June 28, 2012 at 6:48 pm

    CAA is a cool $Million dollars to exit.

  3. Jason

    June 28, 2012 at 10:28 pm

    I know it’s been reported here fairly recently, but I’m too lazy to look it up.

    What are the fees to leave the SoCon right now?
    What are the fees to leave the CAA?

  4. Fred Smith

    June 29, 2012 at 12:14 am

    AppFan must be eat up with this topic. Why would we even consider it? Doesn't make any sense.

    Cobb & Peacock should have gotten us into the FBS years ago without these years of waiting around. Don't tell me there was a moratorium in place. They say a ten year moratorium is coming in September 2012, what will we do for ten frigging years then? Twittle our thumbs. Should have gone FBS before the last moratorium went into effect. No. Too cloudy minded to have gotten it done back then AND now. I've about had it with those clowns.

  5. Amy

    June 29, 2012 at 2:25 am

    Amen Fred, amen.

    Fire Cobb and retire Peacock

  6. Gwaltineer

    June 29, 2012 at 2:53 am

    If we obtained a spot in FBS years ago, we miss out on the greatest three years nearly any sports program has had. I can hear an argument about why the time is now or the time was a couple of years ago, but there's not way you trade 2005-2007 for anything anyone else had during those years.

  7. AppInExile

    June 29, 2012 at 3:08 am

    I think the argument is we should've begun setting up for the move after App won its 1st NC.

    Why are we even discussing CAA? Did anyone really doubt that ASU would forego its FBS dreams to join the CAA?

    Please Lord, let football season start! We need some real sports-related news to discuss and keep the UNCC trolls away.

  8. Watauga 72

    June 29, 2012 at 4:39 am

    If the goal is to go FBS, moving to the CAA should be considered ONLY if it facilitates the next step. We are not privy to any ongoing discussions so everything is just a guess. Hope there ARE discussions!

  9. NWA

    June 29, 2012 at 5:00 am

    Watauga 72 hit it on the head. In discussions with CUSA and SBC they could have given App it's path into the league and it may include increasing the level of competition – not so much in football, but other sports.

    I don't think the CAA is a bad move for App. I would be more worried about what is left in the SoCon if some of your conference mates leave you there. That could make any jump in the future more difficult.

    I know many of you think it's FBS or bust, but sometimes the conferences dictate what you are going to do. Charlotte would have been in the CAA or Southern if the conferences had let only our football team in – no amount of us talking or begging was going to change that. I know for a fact our AD discussed what it would take to get into the BE with BE leadership. I suspect they told us you need to do X. IMO X was get into an FBS league first. CUSA could have given App similar instructions.

    Not saying that is the case – just that I don't think a move to the CAA is the sky is falling disaster that some of you think it is. The wild card in all this is if the NCAA puts in another moratorium on moving up. If that happens and you are in the CAA with the 1 mil exit fee that could make things tough.

  10. RadioFan

    June 29, 2012 at 5:33 am

    Cobb & Peacock should have gotten us into the FBS years ago

    Should have gone FBS before the last moratorium went into effect.

    Ummm, the Moratorium was in place before Cobb or Peacock had their current job. The Moratorium has been lifted, we had to do a study saying if it was viable to move up. That takes time and money and research and outreach to the alumni (who all still aren't 100% behind a upward move).

    Also, Peacock has been a wonderful Chancellor. New nursing school. New campuswide upgrades. The Sustainable Energies program is one of the highest in the WORLD. New sports medicine program with Wake Forest. I could go on. Guess what, being a Chancellor has a LOT more to do than what conference you align the school with.

    So stop talking out your ass.

  11. A.Freeman

    June 29, 2012 at 5:44 am

    +1 Radiofan

  12. bcoach

    June 29, 2012 at 6:09 am

    +1 Radiofan

    In addition if 1 million dollars stands in the way of making a right decision (whatever that may be) then we are not ready to move anyway. If 1 million scares people then they just don't understand what it takes to be succesful at the next level. If we plan to move forward underfunded than 3 years into it half of you will no longer be on this board. You will have jumped off tall buildings. Every time I hear the million as a problem I think this has not really been thought through.

    I am not saying we should move to CAA but IF it were the right move a million should not be the reason to stop it if you guys are really serious about being competitive at the next level.

  13. little man syndrome

    June 29, 2012 at 6:12 am

    I think this is a good move for you. The market is clearly saturated and I just dont think there is any room for another NC FBS team. Plus you fill the role out well as the big fish in a small pond. 3 JV championships and counting is nothing to turn your nose up at.

    Remember, gaining perceptive insights into ones reality is a key first step towards self actualization

  14. app in sc

    June 29, 2012 at 6:16 am

    Oh my…..little man has been playing with himself again…..

  15. NWA

    June 29, 2012 at 6:16 am

    App and Charlotte don't have millions of dollars available to throw around like that. Not without a set plan.

    Just look at the dollar figures for each AD. To act like a million dollars is chump change for either of us… well you have us confused with SEC schools.

  16. bigasufan

    June 29, 2012 at 6:17 am

    Well said RadioFan.

  17. Appthunder90

    June 29, 2012 at 6:21 am


    Alright, I'll bite. You've thrown this out here a couple of times. My question to you is; given the choice, would you rather by a house for $250,000 or $1,000,000 for the same house? I understand the point you are making, and I agree. If 1 mil is all that stands in the way and we can't manage, then we shouldnt move. That is not quite the case here (at least not as I see it). We can choose to pay 1mil, or we can opt not to and pay 250,000. I guess what I am trying to say is "you gotta know when to hold em, and know when to fold em."

  18. goapps02

    June 29, 2012 at 6:29 am

    So if we are JV, why are you spending your time making backhanded compliments on our board. Don't you have something better to do? If we are in fact at a JV level, I guess a good analogy to your actions would be if one of us was trolling and making disparaging comments on some high school team's message board. We of course wouldn't do that because that would make us, well, losers. So there it is little man, a quite clear and concise explanation of why you are a loser. Hopefully this helps get you closer to your own "self actualization."

  19. NALB

    June 29, 2012 at 6:33 am

    "Reason No. 1 is the fact that last September the NCAA lifted a four-year moratorium on schools jumping from FCS to FBS. Word on the street is that the moratorium will return, and this time it could last 10 years.

    ODU athletics director Wood Selig said the possibility of another moratorium is why his school moved so quickly.

    "For me personally, it [a possible moratorium] created a major sense of urgency," Selig told David Teel of the Daily Press of Hampton Roads, Va."

    ~~~Conference shuffle creating room for upstarts to make jump to FBS

  20. Greg

    June 29, 2012 at 6:50 am

    Gee, I'm sure glad we have Cobb and Peacock running the show. If some of Appfan's posters were in the driver's seat the mountaineers would be playing in the NFL.

  21. Watauga 72

    June 29, 2012 at 6:58 am

    little richard syndrome,

    Got your season tix for this year yet? Wish we could all be there when your first football team takes the field in 60 days to cheer on the newest FCS team.

  22. little man syndrome

    June 29, 2012 at 7:08 am

    goapps, I meant JV in the nicest way possible. FCS, like JV sports, have their place in this world too.

    They tried to cut some funding to JV and middle school sports in my area a few years ago and parents of the players freaked out. Sure, most people don't care about it and the players themselves are all just really striving to get to the next level, but it lets the kids have fun. And that should ultimately be what this is all about. Just having some fun. Let the bigger programs worry about all the grown up stuff that comes with big time college football.

  23. Watauga 72

    June 29, 2012 at 7:13 am

    Sorry to hear that your sports program got cut at your middle school. At least you still have access to a computer, although some adult supervision would be advised.

  24. GoApps73

    June 29, 2012 at 10:02 am

    Looking through the top 75 professional basketball draft picks from yesterday, I see zero from the Southern Conference. What a surprise!!!

    The Southern smacks in basketball (aka "Pathetic").

    Heck, I do NOT like professional sports except golf. And I believe women's synchronized swimming would be a wonderful substitute for professional basketball (either gender).

  25. asumike83

    June 29, 2012 at 10:16 am

    Let the bigger programs worry about all the grown up stuff that comes with big time college football.

    I understand you're new to the whole football thing but if you think UNCC is "big time", you are in for a rude awakening. The BCS conferences look at the mid-major FBS schools just the same as they do FCS. A tune-up for conference play.

    Don't get me wrong, I'd support an FBS move for ASU but if you think going FBS will put in you on equal footing with the big time college football programs, you are kidding yourself. I do think going FBS allows for scheduling of better non-conference games, access to stronger depth of athletes, the chance to play other schools with a strong following and see more of our games televised but implying that you are "big time" is laughable. Boise State and TCU (until then went Big 12/Big East) were the only mid-major programs that could call themselves big time with a straight face.

    We are all fighting for scraps from the real big time athletic programs. Congrats on C-USA though, and good luck.

  26. carbine

    June 29, 2012 at 11:50 am

    ASUmike83, that's the best description of the situation I've seen on this board in a long time.

  27. appstategrad2002

    June 29, 2012 at 12:00 pm

    +1 asumike83

  28. bcoach

    June 29, 2012 at 12:10 pm


    I think you misunderstand me. I am not making a case to move to the CAA although I don't think it is the same house for many reasons. It is a better house, 750 better? I don't know about that but yes a better house. BUT that is not my point. My point is that from what I have seen on this board over the last year or two I really don't think some of the people here really realize what we are looking at. The point is that if we think there is a SMART move to make and we are afraid of it because of 1 million dollars then we should stop right now because we will be in over our heads. Chump change? No. Big money in FBS? No. My fear from day one is that the study didn't go below the surface. It didn't explore the little guys to see if the financial support was there at the lower levels. Again this is not an argument about going to the FBS ( you know my feelings on that) or CAA it is only a statement about money. In the FBS world 1 million dollars is not huge money, there are many teams that spend that much at a bowl game.

    Now as a totally different discussion, if we were not to get a bid and had the opportunity to join the CAA there are as many reasons to do it as there are not. In fact there are probably more/better to do it.

  29. bcoach

    June 29, 2012 at 12:16 pm

    asumike83 has also just presented the other part of the equation VERY well.

  30. Appthunder90

    June 29, 2012 at 12:28 pm


    I guess I was looking at the long-term stated goal of going fbs. To that wit, I think it would be foolish to pay 250 (assuming we give 2 years notice, that number at least doubles with less than 1 year) to jump ship to caa, only to turn around and pay another mil to jump divisions. A lot of variables coul be in play such as the long rumored "caa to fbs as a conference" scenario. Given no other alternative ie. no fbs for the foreseeable future would the caa make sense? Possibly. Is it a better option than the socon? Possibly. Do we want to pay 1.25 million to find out? That remains to be seen. Would the caa hurt our national championship aspirations? I am undecided. I will concede that in the world of fbs football a 1mil barrier to entry is nil. On the other hand, we do not as of yet reside in the fbs realm. I may have rambled but I think you can see where my thought process is headed

  31. Watauga 72

    June 29, 2012 at 12:31 pm

    Good job….sums up what I believe will motivate further reorganization within college football. The big money conferences control the landscape, the rest of us (FCS and/or FBS smallfry) are left scrambling for the crumbs. I believe there will be no more than 4 superconferences with at least 14 teams each. These conferences will split up what are now considered the BCS bowls and money. The rest of us will end up lumped together in a second level division. Just my opinion.

  32. AppWyo

    June 29, 2012 at 1:19 pm

    Basically, if you are not in a BCS conference you are little time college football. When was the last time a Conference USA, MAC, Sun Belt, WAC, Mountain West team played for a National Championship?

  33. NALB

    June 29, 2012 at 1:21 pm

    Appthunder, you might have stumbled on a pretty good idea …

    The new rumored 10 year moratorium may go in effect in September. Or next year. Who knows?

    An FBS invitation could happen in 9-12 months. Or not at all.

    The simple solution is to tell the Socon, "Goodbye" before their July 4th deadline and give them 2 years notice.

  34. Fred

    June 29, 2012 at 4:17 pm

    CAA would be good for all sports. I agree with the firing of Cobb.

  35. MadDoctor

    June 29, 2012 at 4:19 pm

    Poor Little Man. You must not think any App alums live in Charlotte. We do, and we know you. As much as we are aggravated by the trolling, snide insults, we can't really dislike you all, because we know you, and we pity you. It must give you quite the complex, living in a city where you wouldn't make the front page of the paper if you beat Alabama by 50. You'd have to look in the Carolina Living section on page 11E. Meanwhile, UNC-Duke basketball makes the front page in July. The one or two times you are mentioned on your sports radio station, you are ridiculed and disrespected. If we are JV, you are Pop Warner. Frankly, it is a little awkward seeing you guys give up your lunch money everyday to the ACC and tobacco road. It is also uncomfortable watching when someone asks where you went to college, and you lower your head and say, I just went to UNCC. We don't dislike you; we feel sorry for you.

    So, if getting invited to the same conference you once fled like a rat off a sinking ship makes you feel good about yourself, I say enjoy it. Who knows? Maybe you'll even make the back page of the sports section. But don't try to fool yourself, or anyone else into thinking that, despite never having scored a touchdown, you are on the same par as ASU. Remember, we live here- and we know you.

  36. GoApps73

    June 29, 2012 at 4:51 pm

    I still dream about the game last year at Hokieville. I will never forget it.

    My best guess, if we go to BCS we do NOT improve recruiting a significant amount. Boone is a hard place to recruit and it would not get any easier in my opinion. I base the "success" Middle Tennessee has with a projected comparable Rivals key high school players. They occasionally get a three star player but mainly exist with two and one star athletics (or no stars).

    I don't mind CAA!!!

    For every Boise State and TCU, there are a number of Marshals and Troys. If someone thinks the recruiting of 3-5 star football players will automatically occur, they are flying in the face of conventional wisdom and smoking the killer weed.

    We are already on par with Middle Tennesse although with smaller scholarship numbers.


    2012 Name Pos Location Ht Wt 40 Stars Rivals Rating Committed Videos Pos Rank Nat Rank State Rank Visit Date Enrolled Recruited By

    Signed Letter of Intent Loading…

    T.T. Barber 2 stars LB Colquitt, GA

    Miller County 6'1" 215 2 stars 5.2 2/1/12

    Darious Bennett 2 stars DT Columbus, GA

    Carver 6'1" 287 2 stars 5.2 2/1/12 1 video 1/13/12

    Jacob Bennett 3 stars WR Brenham, TX

    Blinn C.C. 6'1" 205 4.5 3 stars 5.5 3/2/12

    Chris Brown 2 stars ATH Donalsonville, GA

    Seminole County 6'1" 180 2 stars 5.4 2/1/12

    Joshua Chester 2 stars OL Warner Robins, GA

    Northside School 6'3" 290 2 stars 5.2 2/1/12

    Jacob Corbaley 0 stars TE Oroville, CA

    Butte C.C. 6'4" 240 4.7 2/27/12 Joe Cauthen

    William Eads 2 stars ATH Hoover, AL

    Hoover 6'0" 205 2 stars 5.2 2/1/12

    Raynard Felton 2 stars DE Jacksonville, FL

    Ribault 6'5" 235 2 stars 5.4 1/15/12 1/13/12 Justin Watts

    Demetrius Frazier 3 stars ATH Brunswick, GA

    Brunswick 5'10" 174 4.5 3 stars 5.6 2/1/12 3 videos 1/6/12

    Austin Grammer 3 stars QB Tuscaloosa, AL

    American Christian Academy 6'2" 204 4.9 3 stars 5.5 1/30/12 1 video 35 1/27/12 Buster Faulkner

    Chris Hale 2 stars DE Dunwoody, GA

    Dunwoody 6'5" 250 2 stars 5.2 2/7/12

    Marcus Henry 2 stars WR Senatobia, MS

    Northwest Mississippi C.C. 6'1" 190 2 stars 5.4 1/17/12

    Shaquille Huff 2 stars DT Covington, GA

    Eastside 6'1" 300 5.4 2 stars 5.4 1/31/12 1 video

    Alex Jauregui 2 stars OL Suwanee, GA

    Peachtree Ridge 6'7" 305 2 stars 5.2 2/1/12 1 video

    Nick Nunez 2 stars OL Salinas, CA

    Hartnell C.C. 6'4" 280 2 stars 5.2 12/23/11 yes

    Jordan Parker 2 stars RB Suwanee, GA

    Collins Hill 6'2" 195 4.5 2 stars 5.4 1/24/12 Buster Faulkner

    Terry Pettis 2 stars WR Fairburn, GA

    Langston Hughes 6'6" 225 4.7 2 stars 5.2 1/29/12 1 video

    Hunter Rogers 2 stars OL Selma, AL

    Morgan Academy 6'7" 300 2 stars 5.2 2/1/12

    Iman Smith 2 stars ATH Largo, FL

    Pinellas Park 6'2" 215 2 stars 5.4 1/31/12 1/27/12

    Anfornee Stewart 2 stars ATH Duluth, GA

    Duluth 6'1" 198 2 stars 5.4 1/23/12 1/20/12

    Adam Stickel 2 stars OL Kissimmee, FL

    Osceola 6'4" 315 2 stars 5.2 1/30/12 1 video

  37. Appywho??

    June 29, 2012 at 4:53 pm

    Every time I look at this board I am reminded of a Trix commercial, "Silly appy's! FBS is for REAL schools!".

    Also please allow your moderator to let you here the truth of your sad little backwater community college. He apparently can not handle it, and after no doubt wetting himself with fear and humiliation, has been removing our post.

  38. AIG

    June 29, 2012 at 5:10 pm

    As I have found out from a source close to the athletic department all focus is now on the upcoming season. There is nothing being discussed about any type of move. See like a dead issue…,kick the can down the road for now

  39. MadDoctor

    June 29, 2012 at 5:12 pm

    Your posts were probably removed because they referenced 1970's children's cereal commercials. Quality control, you know.

    Are there just no fans on your own school's message board, or are they all on Carolina's. Just wondering.

  40. Jack '74

    June 29, 2012 at 5:31 pm

    This damn topic has been beat up; beat down; beat sideways; and beat upside down at least a dozen times each…….hell, maybe a hundred time each, and that's in the last week. When the last word is said tonight, next week and next month, guess what? The Apps and the SoCon………..yep, still married after 40 years, and counting. Maybe Mars or, how about this, Uranus may have better FBS options but they ain't in the NCAA, USA or this Earth. The more I think about it, Uranus sounds like a better place to look for a FBS conference slot than anywhere else that has been mentioned lately.

  41. GoApps73

    June 29, 2012 at 7:03 pm

    We need to face cutting facts. CUSA preferred a school with no football team to the former three times, 1AA National Champions. Is this the fault of our AD and/or Chancellor? Those who think so are debasing the management of CUSA. They definitely knew of ASU but scorned us. Ever what they deemed important, apparently it was not in Boone. Nothing that Charlie or Dr. Peacock could have done except got on their hands and knees and begged.

    Most of us supporters of ASU do so because we love the university and Boone area. We matured here and know the charms of the area. Is there a finer place than Watauga County in the Fall! And did we love there?

    Let us quit trading insults with people who support UNCC. After all, CUSA was the suitor for them. Trading insults is akin to pure jealousy on our part.

    What I don't believe is that we have a viable future in the Southern Conference UNLESS our football bragging rights continue to be that we can beat Elon, Western Carolina, Samford, etc. And that every 15-20 years we win the basketball crown and get invited to the "Big Dance as a 14th seed. That is all we are going to have unless we transition to another conference such as CAA.

    The CAA has huge upsides including State Universities, well-known universities, excellent basketball, better football, etc.

    Golly, the 2011 Hokie game blackened my existence.

  42. bcoach

    June 29, 2012 at 7:29 pm


    We are pretty much on the same page. I just don't think we have the money that we think we do.

    As far as CAA I am not proposing the move but am looking at it. If we thought there was going to be a moritorium and we had not moved to to FBS then I would HATE to be stuck in a raided SOCON. If Elon and Furman were to move and leave us with a Garner Webb and a Coastal Carolina I am not sure we could recover from that. Garner, Coastal, and a non conference NC A&T would make a season to stop watching football altogether.

  43. MAD Doctor

    June 29, 2012 at 9:32 pm

    Let's face these facts: Some of us, including the chancellor and board of trustees, still believe that we belong in the FBS. No one is talking about expectations of playing Alabama in the Sugar Bowl, but if you look at the teams in the CUSA, Sunbelt, and MAC, and don't think we can compete there, don't come crying when you find yourselves in a conference with Gardner Webb, Coastal, Lenoir-Rhyne or worse. We face this situation today because of such doubt and timidity in the past. Don't blame these schools for catching and passing you because you chose to stand still.

    Instead of pressing forward, some take the CUSA's snub as the final assessment of our stellar program, so, instead of continuing the fight, they just want to run to another FCS conference and pretend it is a good thing. If anyone asks, we'll tell them we did it for basketball. Really?

    It's been a tough few months, but it's not time to give up. And BTW,although I get tired of hearing the continuous banter, I don't begrudge anyone who defends our university against these UNC-C trolls who crash our message board daily to call us a JV team. If they don't want to be "insulted" they shouldn't crash our board and talk such smack.

  44. Hayes Kellen

    June 30, 2012 at 4:29 am

    Appalachian is not still at the FCS level because of inaction, but rather due to geography, competitiveness, and lack of an invitation to go elsewhere.

    Conference USA is not an option for Appalachian and never will be. Banowsky will not talk specifics about Appalachian for the same reason why Obama will not talk about Ontario becoming the 51st US state. It's not going to happen so why discuss it.

    The Sun Belt is the only possible option for an FBS move. The challenge to SBC membership will be that when CUSA does expand that both MTSU and WKU will be the first schools that leave the Sun Belt, so who becomes the geographical rival? Georgia State. OK, nice trip to Atlanta, but the rest of the games are all air trips, for football and every other sport. Where does the funding come from?

    The answer is not from the big guarantee games with the major FBS schools. Why you ask? Because once the 4-team playoff was announced last week the landscape for scheduling these games in the future changed. FBS Playoff inclusion in the future will depend in large part on SOS = strength of schedule. Playing teams in the lower echelon FBS leagues is not going to be as strong as playing the bad teams from the better leagues. Example – would you rather play Ole Miss from the SEC, Texas Tech from the Big 12, Duke from the ACC, Northwestern from the Big 10 or UTSA from Conference USA or Arkansas Little-Rock from the SBC? Brand power will dictate SOS and the schools that schedule better non-league games amongst the Big 5 Conferences will be the ones that are truly in contention for the FBS 4-team playoff.

    This playoff move is the first move towards these Big 5 leagues all moving away from the lower level leagues of FBS – MAC, SBC, CUSA, WAC and the leftovers from the BIg East football league. This will happen because these teams will be left in a purgatory of sorts, playing not for a championship or a true bowl payoff, but for the honor of being the designated homecoming game for 3-4 weeks annually in the sport of football. All other sports at the school suffer. Plus, football outside of the 5 major leagues is not the way to generate the most revenue return on investment, basketball is. That's a proven fact as the costs are lower and the return is greater.

    The reality is that if Appalachian Basketball had achieved a more consistent postseason (NCAA) reputation that the move to an FBS conference would have been more easily attained. Not guaranteed by any stretch, because the geography of the school and the lack of a media market are the main impediments.

    The chart posted on this site weeks ago showing how ASU touches the Charlotte, Tri-Cities, and Triad media markets is nice, but it's also not descriptive of what Appalachian's critical alumni mass can deliver. By "deliver" I mean if there is an ACC football game on the air in Greensboro and an ASU game, which one will get the best air slot on an over the air syndication station? Answer is ACC due to sales, hands down. Why, because the syndicated TV package for football is paired with the one for basketball. It's all business. ECU can deliver the Far East of NC because there are network affiliate outlets in their campus town. ASU cannot match that and never will.

    Getting to Boone is also an issue. A major one. Having to drive 90 minutes minimum from the nearest major charter airport is not appealing to prospective conference opponents. You can use the example of SEC and PAC 12 schools that are also hard to get to but then you are comparing the media and business power of the Big 5 leagues and the Sun Belt, which is not a logical comparison. When expenses are inclusive of all sports, and not just football, that adds up.

    The most recent FBS study did not anticipate the 4-team playoff structure that has bubbled up in the last week, and therefore the economic model that was presented is flawed.

    Once the Big 5 leagues move away from the pack, again – due to money and the large amount that will be on the table for the 4-team and most likely 8-team+ FBS football playoff by 2021, the big leagues will not make the same mistake with football that they have with basketball.

    In hoops there are 345 teams in D1 splitting the multi-billion basketball pot. In football there is not the same system as there has not been a playoff. This new system is being designed with no AQ tie ins so there are no fingerprints on the structure and it appears open, when the SOS obviously will dictate otherwise. The long term play which will unfold in the next 5 years will be that the Big 10, Big 12, Pac 12, ACC and SEC + Notre Dame and the Academies will form a larger consortium and play 99% of the time among themselves. The MAC, SBC, CUSA, WAC will be left in a purgatory of sorts, and will fold in with the top tier of FCS to form a different division. The 40 and under scholarship bunch of FCS will become a new level, followed by the current d2 and d3 schools. This will result in moving from the current FBS, FCS, D2, D3 model (4 levels) to a new system of FBS, D1, D2, D3 (former d2) and D4 (former d3) or five (5) levels of competition. The Bowl System, which does not yield major dollars to anyone outside of the television networks (cheap programming) and the organizing committees (local charities) will slowly drop off from the current number of 35 bowls… to the model of 20 years ago when there were less that half as many as 2012. So when the bowl number goes down to 15 total bowls, which have mediocre NET payouts if anything at all to the participants, the big revenue that some believe is present in FBS is revealed as Fool's Gold – non-existent.

    The payout from the New Orleans Bowl or $500,00 is comprised of 10,000 tickets at $50 per unit. Sell the tickets and make your $500K. Trouble is you have to pay for your team travel costs and awards out of that total. Do the math;

    $500,000 Total Payout

    150 rooms at $200 per night x 5 nights at designated bowl hotel = $150,000

    Team Charter (Round Trip) to New Orleans = $100,000

    Food, Drinks, etc… for 250 persons for 5 days in New Orleans ($50 per diem which is low) = $62,500

    Awards for the team (Conference Champion Award per NCAA is $325 per kid – NCAA Bowl Gift Ceiling is $300 = $625 per person < all funded by school x 150 athletes and support personnel = $93,750

    So, the very basic bill for this game comes to $406,250. You still have to factor in your marketing costs to push the tickets for a game in New Orleans that takes place 3 days before Christmas. This is a major expense because you have no natural media market to target your campaign to – so now you have to spend a minimum of $50K per market in Charlotte and the Triad to make an impression and boost the Appalachian brand – that total is $100,000 minimum. Media costs more at holiday time and is pretty much booked before you get the bowl invite at the beginning of the month. No time for billboards or direct mail so it's all print, radio and television and new media.

    That last bit pushes you into a deficit per the guaranteed bowl payout of $500,000. Oops, we forgot to put in anything to entertain the big dollar donors. Add in another $50,000. So now the bowl budget is losing $56,000+ just to play Southern Miss, Ohio or Rice?

    That is the football bowl math under the best case scenario. Now add in another estimated $5,000,000 in football related expenses (salaries, travel, expenses, facility debt service) over the current level. Even with 3, million dollar payout games, which will not be a part of the landscape, the budget is bleeding out.

    Oops – we forgot to add in the added costs of operation for the other sports so tag on another $2,000,000.

    How is this looking so far?

    Ok, so you are cussing this post and telling me the math is wrong, but it's not. It's dead on. So ask yourself, are you prepared to see your season ticket costs jump to about $200 per season to see five home games at KBS against SBC opponents and watching 7 games on ESPN3? Are you prepared to triple your donations to the Yosef Club when the football team is no longer nationally ranked and is playing 7-8 win football at the absolute most? Marshall moved up to FBS and has not finished a season nationally ranked since 2002. The Herd has been to 4 bowl games in the last decade, winning 3 of those games against Louisville, Ohio and Florida International. The U of L win was nice, but other than that game the other bowl wins are against other mid major opponents, not exactly brand explosions for Marshall University.

  45. Reese

    June 30, 2012 at 5:42 am

    Great post Hayes, I think you really nailed it. I really think this move to FBS will still occur at some point, however, this move is still going to be at least a few years out. Once the dust settles from this new "playoff" format and the large conferences make their final membership moves, ASU will find a destination once the dust settles. The Sun Belt/CUSA/MAC/Big East might not even exist in 5 years. If you think that FCS is irrelevant, try being in these tiny conferences once this FBS playoff format takes hold. This is going to take time. Our university WILL make the jump at some point.

    Once again, very good post Hayes. Can't say I agree with all of it, but it has merit.

  46. Rekdiver

    June 30, 2012 at 5:51 am

    Here is my math. You are doomed to failure if you fail to try. Or so the CCC who troll our board can understand. no balls no blue chips.

  47. Carbine

    June 30, 2012 at 6:56 am

    There is nothing wrong with FCS football, or the Southern Conference. And that's good news, because we will be playing FCS football in the Southern Conference for a long time still.

    Grow up and deal with it.

  48. Jack '74

    June 30, 2012 at 10:00 am

    Carbine–I think you just hit another bullseye. Like it or not–and I don't like a hell of a lot that I have to deal with in the 21st Century–the Appalachian athletic situation is what it is. We will move up eventually but until then–whenever "then" is–we have no choice but to accept and love what the Apps do until "then".

  49. ceez

    June 30, 2012 at 2:54 pm

    When Hayes speaks you all should listen

  50. MadDoctor

    June 30, 2012 at 6:29 pm

    You got it Rekdiver. Who are we, France? FBS by no later than 2015.

  51. bcoach

    June 30, 2012 at 6:56 pm

    Oh how people hate the truth.

  52. Rekdiver

    June 30, 2012 at 7:06 pm

    Whose truth?


    July 1, 2012 at 6:13 am

    no vision.

  54. NALB

    July 1, 2012 at 6:21 am

    The prevailing wisdom seems to be that App state should NOT do the following:

    Step #1

    Socon Commish: As a professional courtesy, please advise us whether you plan to leave so that we can plan future preperations.

    App State: Yes, we plan to leave. This should serve as our 2 years notice.

    Step #2

    Enter an agreement with the CAA to join in 2 years

    Step #2b

    Accept an invitation to an FBS conference, if possible.

    Then if App accepts an FBS invitation next month, they would still pay the same Socon exit fees only. If the FBS invitation comes in few years, App would have escaped a depleted Socon into the CAA as a full member and would obviously pay the CAA exit fee, too.

    For some reason, this is considered a panic move. Why? Why is everyone so afraid to tell the socon commish that App plans to leave? Is the caa exit fee too much money to spend? Is there a fear that the CAA won't accept ASU and the Socon would refuse to take us back?

    If so, then it just demonstrates that we deserve to stay in the socon for a long, long time.

  55. Carbine

    July 1, 2012 at 9:10 am

    Game over folks. Time to get geared up for another exciting season of FCS SoCon football and another National Championship run! In the words of midwest, get on the train or get run over by it!

    All aboard!

  56. Appthunder90

    July 1, 2012 at 9:13 am

    I have been mulling some of the things that have been thrown around on this board and one of them concerns me and it would be great if someone could clear this up. In recent memory, amidst all the heming an hawing about ousting Cobb because of a perceived "inability to close the deal and make it rain" someone asked who would they rather have as an athletic director. Now that is a fair question. My concern lies in the responses, one in particular, Terry Holland. Now, this is in no way a slight to Mr. Holland or ECU, but why exactly would Terry be able to do this thing? If anything we have somewhat of a terry holland already. He can not close the deal with the Big East. Why would he be able to close a deal with an fcs to fbs division reclassification? ECU is plagued with the same market issues tht we have, except ECU is purported to carry the entire eastern part of the state. What is the difference?

  57. Hayes Kellen

    July 1, 2012 at 9:57 am

    This statement made me laugh;

    "In the words of midwest, get on the train or get run over by it!

    All aboard!"

    Hard to 'get on the train' when no one is inviting you onboard'.

    In the land of the blind the one eyed man is king.

  58. Carbine

    July 1, 2012 at 10:31 am

    Hayes, if you're waiting for an invite to get on the FBS train you're in the wrong station. That invite ain't coming. We are going to play another season in FCS (and another, and another, and another…). And that's fine by me.

  59. bcoach

    July 1, 2012 at 10:41 am

    Hayes Kellen just spelled it out. That is the truth that people don't like. Nobody wants to admit we are going to be another Marshall. The real problem is the success we have had. It will be much more difficult for us than it will be for ODU or UNCC. They can only go up. They are starting from nothing. We have become so successful with conference championships every year and 3 National Championships we can only go down. When the novelty of playing the FBS schedule wears off and we become a team that fights for a conference championship every few years and gets a couple invites to some obscure bowl after a 550. season I just wonder how happy everyone will be. See here is the deal. Winning is fun and losing isn't. That is just a fact.

    Now with all that said we could be in really bad shape if the SOCON loses teams and we replace them with lower level teams. So I think NALB may just be on to something.

  60. Appftw

    July 1, 2012 at 11:07 am

    The team has chartered flights out of Hickory which is much less than 90 minutes away Hayes. That is the first inaccuracy I saw in your novel there so I stopped reading it. Concise, that was not.

    So the fan base it seems is split and yet somehow both still believe that Charlie Cobb is inept. It's either that Cobb didn't have the foresight or vision to properly market us to CUSA or that Cobb is dreaming too big for a small mountain school's britches and can't afford to play big time college football. The latter view is usually held by older alumni that haven't been to Boone in years and/or do not want to give up cheaper tailgate spots. I am somewhat with the former, I mean the guy apologized for it. The excitement generated by an FBS announcement would easily generate enough interest and money to fund the Campaign for Appalachian and if you don't think so, you're out of touch. They only need 60 million more, I believe (out of 200, that's not much). App has the spirit and sense of community that UNCC can only aspire to by building their cute little stadium. Hopefully having a football team will give Charlotte's campus a pulse. The only time it has signs of life now is during the commuter rush.

  61. Hayes Kellen

    July 1, 2012 at 11:35 am

    AppFTW: You obviously have not chartered with a football team much. I have. I played. Hickory at it's best is 60 minutes away by bus and that is if you are taking an FCS level charter out of a small isolated charter only non-commercial airport. Again, no need for me to spin poetic when you make the point. The only full-service airport serving Boone is 90 minutes away at a minimum. If you are bringing a real charter in, complete with equipment, then you are flying into Greensboro or Charlotte. Plus, these would be the places that opposing fans are going to fly into. Face it, you can cuss Cobb and Peacock all you like, but there is not a FBS league that wants Appalachian, there is not going to be a new league that rises up and invites Appalachian, etc… There is the Southern Conference. If your ADD had allowed you the focus to read you would also have gleaned that the real issue is not with the Football side of the house, it's that Appalachian Basketball is a non factor. ASU has no sports brand outside of FCS football. So, I guess you could blame the Administration for not paying attention to men's basketball and making bad hires there for the last 12 years. That would be a point, because for ASU to move up its going to be more on the back of being a great all around sports program led by football AND basketball not only the football part, which even at the non PLAYOFF level of FBS it is a money loser and a fiscal disaster.

    Now, go back to your hourly job and leave the discussion to the adults.

  62. NWA

    July 1, 2012 at 12:29 pm

    Hayes Kellen – That is an excellent post and shows the difficulty in making being a lower level FBS team work from a money point of view.

    The only issue I have is the big boy break away. I have no doubt that this is what they are going to try to do. The law suits that will come flying in with that will be many. I just don't see it sticking. I think the FBS level will stay intact with the power conferences and smaller conferences.

  63. Rekdiver

    July 1, 2012 at 1:04 pm

    Hayes both hickory and wilkesboro can accommodate a 737.

  64. mikeyosef

    July 1, 2012 at 1:33 pm

    Hayes Kellen,

    I somehow doubt there are many ECU, Marshall or UNCC fans that will be "flying in" to see games CUSA games…we're not talking about Georgia, Alabama or Florida here. It's not location, it's population! Everyone knows the reason we didn't get an invite to CUSA and it's purely based on the illusion that more people will watch UNCC than App State play ESU on TV.

  65. AppWyo

    July 1, 2012 at 2:10 pm

    You are right mikeyosef, it's all about who will watch the games on television. Not who will go to the game. So it really doesn't matter where the school is located, it matters wheather people will watch it on TV. I remember telling some of my friends in Wyoming about how far I lived from Wake, Duke, State and Carolina and they said you live in the heart of some of the greatest college basketball in the country. I never did tell them I had never been to any of the games. I watched them on TV the same way they did.

  66. spenceca

    July 1, 2012 at 2:18 pm

    I believe in good time APP will find a suitable FBS home. I have stopped worrying about this as I believe it is only a matter of time. In the meantime, I am waiting for my season tickets and have booked my first two plane flights from Texas to watch my APPS play at The Rock!! Season can't get here fast enough!!

  67. spenceca

    July 1, 2012 at 2:32 pm

    By the way I am pretty excited about this years team!! Defense will be extremely solid and I am sure Satterfield will have the offense clicking on all cylinders. I am looking forward to a good showing at ECU. Go Apps!! It's a good day to be a mountaineer!!

  68. spenceca

    July 1, 2012 at 3:08 pm

    While I agree basketball is a factor and it is unfortunate App basketball has not performed to a level we all expect. Let us not be confused. Conference realignment is not about basketball. It is about football. Boise State's basketball program did not get them into the Big East. Don't believe that…Boise State didn't see a NCAA Men's Basketball tournament from 1995 through 2007. I agree App needs to up there game in terms of basketball but basketball is not dictating conference realignment moves. Anyone that thinks basketball is driving this is sadly mistaken.

  69. spenceca

    July 1, 2012 at 3:13 pm

    Everyone on this board knows what is driving conference realignment. It's the perception of TV market. I think that horse has been beat to death!! Some of the lower level conferences are following the Big East model of Big City = TV $$$.

  70. spenceca

    July 1, 2012 at 3:18 pm

    My point about Boise State is that football pushed their football program into the Big East. This is why they scrambling to find a home for their BB program. Basketball is not a driving factor!!

  71. Jack

    July 1, 2012 at 4:12 pm

    I'm not sure about where all the optimism about this season and especially about the ECU game is coming from. We were not very good last year and I haven't seen any reason to think we'll be any better this year. Satterfield is good but he's not going to make us instantly good again. Add to that the guessing game that is FCS recruiting and we could easily be even worse than last year.

  72. AppOrange

    July 1, 2012 at 5:09 pm


    not sure how you posted from the future, kudos my friend . . .

  73. AppWyo

    July 1, 2012 at 7:03 pm

    Maybe C-USA thought that Boone was short for Boonies and that would be in the middle of no where. Maybe if Boone was named Metropolis we would have gotten a bid.

  74. AppWyo

    July 1, 2012 at 7:04 pm

    Is it July 2nd already?

  75. Rekdiver

    July 1, 2012 at 7:19 pm

    He must be in bermuda

  76. GoApps73

    July 1, 2012 at 8:47 pm

    Great point about men's basketball program. It has been difficult to accept.

  77. Free

    July 1, 2012 at 11:32 pm

    Lets face it, all of the things that we love about Boone and ASU are the reasons why we will probably never be fbs. I'm ok with that. Sometimes you just need to accept who you are. ASU is a beautiful campus nestled in the majestic appalachian mountains. My wife and I both received a wonderful education that has transpired into successful careers. Together, we probably know of at least 20 students who have left uncg and uncc to transfer to ASU. They don't transfer again. In fact, we have never known anyone to transfer from ASU to another school. Students love ASU. It is also the reason why my wife and I, along with our 2 boys, make the 2 hour drive to Boone at least once a month. We eat lunch at Macados. We hit up the mast general store and a few other places in town. We let the wife do a little shopping in Blowing Rock. The boys and I don't care about shopping, but we let her because we know that there will be Kilwins to follow. My oldest son is 4. He tells me that he likes Boone better than the beach. Things just seem to slow down a little bit when we go to Boone and breathe the fresh mountain air. Charlotte is ok I guess. If you like concrete. I own panthers psls too, so we go there often to watch Cam and the gang. But its not the same. So I guess what I'm saying is to just accept who ASU is. We are not a big market and therefore not very attractive to fbs conferences. I didn't go to ASU because of what kind of market category we fall into. I went because I loved the school. Maybe one day my boys will go there too and we will still be going to playoff games together. And as we sit through those snowy games against montana, georgia southern, etc… we will always know in the back of our mind that we could easily stomp a hole in uncc, but they were always too scared to schedule us and ruin their season by losing to a "jv team". Yeah, I'm cool with that.

  78. Jack '74

    July 2, 2012 at 1:57 am

    Back in the late '80s and early '90s, Andre Agassi did a very successful series of commercials for various Nikon cameras. The specifics are not important now. What I remember is that the overriding theme was that "perception is reality". No truer words were ever spoken. We all have an Appalachian perception which we believe (know) to be true. However, and unfortunately for everything Black and Gold, the decision-making suits who have never been on the mountain, have another well-stated perception of Appalachian that is their reality, no matter how at odds it is with us and what we know to be true. Human nature dictates that when a person (or in our case, a university) leaves one location, a specific destination should be determined. Without a secure landing place assured, we are so much better off where we are than following a latter day Moses who might lead us into the wilderness of collge athletics, which we should all hope and pray will not take us 40 years to find that elusive athletic oasis finally "flowing with milk and honey".

  79. Dr. Gonzo

    July 2, 2012 at 6:40 am

    Well Hayes,

    For a new message board poster, you sure are arrogant. I deduced a lot about you from that encyclopedia you wrote as well as your childish response to appftw, none of which was wisdom or insight.

    Perceived media market is why we have no invite yet. Plain and simple. You're really suggesting that the reason revolves around our lack of a "sports brand outside of FCS football" and you expect to be taken seriously? Even if that was true, it has no bearing whatsoever in conference realignment for us. If we were courting the A-10 it might have something to do with it, but we're not.

    This is the reality of conference movement at this level. We WILL be moving soon.


    July 2, 2012 at 8:41 am

    no vision, no strategy, no plan.

    Don't bother calling me for any more donations until we have someone who can lead.

  81. (sigh)

    July 2, 2012 at 8:55 am

    Gonzo…. you're calling Hayes childish??? Wow, talk about the pot calling the kettle black. Simply put, Hayes is right and we need more intelligent comments like his and less of the likes of your ridiculous comments and speculation.

  82. Dr. Gonzo

    July 2, 2012 at 9:13 am

    Right about one thing (sigh), that was VERY simply put.

    Love to know anything I've said specifically that's been childish or ridiculous. Methinks you'll have some trouble.

  83. Dr. Gonzo

    July 2, 2012 at 9:16 am

    Is Appfan switching servers or something? The chronology of these comments is blowing my mind right now

  84. Rufus

    July 2, 2012 at 9:17 am


    Not disagreeing with the rest of the post, however your comment about the contraction of bowls has to be questioned. Once these bowls are in place and they make money, those sponsors dont give them up. Teams will be asked to play and they will. Unless there is some way that forces them to, they will not decrease the number of bowls. Its a revenue generator, once that begins you dont stop.

  85. (sgh)

    July 2, 2012 at 9:23 am


    It was " simply put" because it seems that is the only kind of comment that you seem to understand.

    No trouble at all actually… read any post you leave for anyone that disagrees with you. See also.. your response to my post.

    You're a child.

  86. (sigh)

    July 2, 2012 at 9:28 am

    If you respond to my rebuttal trying to defend yourself or try to attack me, then you're just proving my point.

  87. Dr. Gonzo

    July 2, 2012 at 9:58 am

    "If you respond to my rebuttal trying to defend yourself or try to attack me, then you’re just proving my point."

    Most hypocritical thing ever written.

    Deflect and avoid if you must. If you don't want to go point by point with me, that's fine, I wouldn't either if I were you, but your generalities aren't fooling anyone. I'd love to see a poll of Appfan posters/readers as to who has more credibility, (sigh) or me.

    I ask for specifics and you tell me "like everything you've ever posted, dude." Looks like we have a third party candidate running for Most Childish! (sigh) comes out of nowhere to defeat Dr. Gonzo AND Hayes. Congrats bud.

    The comments on this forum sure have gone downhill from what they were 2-3 years ago.


  88. (sigh)

    July 2, 2012 at 10:57 am


    Thank you for proving my point. Love how you misquoted me with "like everything you’ve ever posted, dude." Just like a child… misquoting someone to prove an incorrect point.

    Specifics? I'm not going to waste my time – especially on you, lol. I'm sorry to disappoint, because I know how much you LOVE a good pissing contest. If I'm called to court one day to testify on the matter – I KNOW I can pull plenty of posts up – as well from other blogs outside of Appfan.

    Everyone on this blog puts you in the same car as MIDWEST… someone who posts a lot, but no one really listens to or cares about what they have to say. Whenever I read a post from you, I think "Keep it down in the back seat… Adults are talking."

    Another thing… you certainly don't own this blog, Gonzo. It's not your place to put "new posters" down – everyone has the right post as an Appalachian fan. Comments on this blog sure have gone downhill… and you certainly do not escape some blame.

    This concludes any further banter with this idiot.

  89. Dr. Gonzo

    July 2, 2012 at 12:05 pm

    "If I’m called to court one day to testify on the matter – I KNOW I can pull plenty of posts up – as well from other blogs outside of Appfan."

    Well you keep on talking about all this imaginary evidence, bud. If you had any, you would have linked it. I do engage in smack talk more than the average message boarder, and if that's childish then so-be-it. But to characterize me as a poster, with all the well-informed contributions I bring on such a regular basis, as "childish" overall is ridiculous.

    "Everyone on this blog puts you in the same car as MIDWEST… someone who posts a lot, but no one really listens to or cares about what they have to say. Whenever I read a post from you, I think “Keep it down in the back seat… Adults are talking.”

    Now this is rich right here. I could see us being grouped together in that we are both pro FBS and that we do post a lot. That's where the similarities end. There are countless posters on Appfan that don't appreciate you speaking for them. Among these people are the folks giving me "+1's" all the time and asking my opinion when I've yet to even post on certain articles ect. I'm not trying to sound pretentious about my appfan status or say that I have a fanbase of my own or anything, but lumping my contributions with a raving, out-of-touch idiot like MW speaks to your own ignorance about the dynamic of this forum.

    "Another thing… you certainly don’t own this blog, Gonzo. It’s not your place to put “new posters” down – everyone has the right post as an Appalachian fan. Comments on this blog sure have gone downhill… and you certainly do not escape some blame."

    I don't put "new posters" down just because they're new posters. I welcome anyone so long as they don't spew endless drivel like you're posts have ended up being today. I'll attack a seasoned veteran just as quickly as a noob if their writing compels me to do so.

    "This concludes any further banter with this idiot."


  90. (sigh)

    July 2, 2012 at 12:39 pm

    Commenting between laugh…

    Countless people posters not appreciating that I speak for them? Wow.. you will say anything to sway things your way. I guess you need it support the size of your head.

    The only person gthat has complained to me is you because I disagree with you.

  91. bcoach

    July 2, 2012 at 1:35 pm

    DR Gonzo

    Look at it another way. He has some very valid points that the pro FBS fans should look at and demand be addressed. We all know that the football world revolves around the TV market much more than location, but there really are other things to look at. Just look at the basketball issue. I see that not so much as a reason for a conference to want us or not, but more of an internal thing. Will FBS conference alignment increase our monetary losses in basket ball? If so we need to solve that problem before the extra expenses kick in. I think you guys would be well served to use some of the things that come up here to try and solve the pitfalls rather than just fight about them. I am not a big fan of the FBS move but understand both sides of the argument and the fact that it may be necessary at some point. Both sides have merit. I really truly think that the ideas of all the people on here are much more valuable than the handful of people involved in the "study". I know, they are the “heavy hitters” but should there not have been another perspective? Here is another glaring problem I have with the study. How did they come to their conclusion without identifying a conference that would accept us? I would want that to be part of a study that I paid for. There is a very big difference between the available conferences. Bottom line is that I think the people on this board could have done a better job. There are some very valid points in many of the posts even if we don't feel the whole post is valid in our mind. The more I read on this board from both sides the more I believe that the real weakness in administration was accepting the study without more/better answers. Conversations with a few conferences should have been part of this study.

    In my mind this looks a lot like the shoddy highway repair that the state goes and pays for anyway. You do a study that says you should move without telling you there is no place to move. These are supposed to be the experts.

  92. GeneGenethedancingma

    July 2, 2012 at 2:00 pm


    You say CUSA will "never" be an option for ASU. Rick Beasley and other high ranking ASU officials have told some influential alumni (those parking on the front row) just the opposite. When the dominos start to fall as conferences look to secure their spot in the new playoff format who knows what the outcome will be. Never is a very hard and fast word.

  93. Stuck in Lodi

    July 2, 2012 at 2:15 pm

    In minor league baseball news: Jeremy Dowdy had 3 hits last night for the Bristol (VA) White Sox as they posted a win in the Appalachian League (Rookie).

  94. MAD Doctor

    July 2, 2012 at 4:08 pm


    I agree. Despite Charlie's unsettling gaffe regarding a new strategy, we don't have much information on where we currently stand and what lies ahead. No doubt, there will have to be a ripple effect beginning in a major conference, eventually trickling down to us. Not sure who will get the dominos falling- Fla, State, Clemson, Notre Dame? I'd hoped something would have happened by now, but again, we just don't know all the facts. I respect all APP posters on the board, but despite all that anyone brings to the table, it is all speculation. I believe it will happen soon, but until then I'll stock up on sunscreen for the opener and watch for rumblings at the top of the food chain.

  95. GoApps73

    July 2, 2012 at 4:56 pm

    2012 will be 40 years since ASU joined the Southern Conference.

    Our basketball team has won the Conference Championship two times. There are a couple of things impacting the program in my opinion:

    1. Being in the Southern Conference which hurts recruiting.

    2. Paying limits in force to hire and then keep a good, quality basketball coach.

    Heck, with these statistics it does not look good for me, at my age, to see ASU go back to the "Big Dance". I have been to the only two they have been invited to participate (blown out by Ohio State and LSU).

  96. Greg

    July 2, 2012 at 5:00 pm

    I'm confident that a move to the FBS is in our future eventually. Patience is a virtue that will put us in the right seat at the right time. Nobody ever got a girlfriend by overplaying their hand and "making it rain" (strippers excluded).

    Our time will come. Until then let's focus on ECU

  97. Greg

    July 2, 2012 at 5:08 pm

    I really believe that the new top 4 FBS playoff will render these mega conferences moot. If the format was conference champions the story would be different. Once the shine wears off the apple and schools see what the travel costs really are for going such distances and that a Pitt vs Miami matchup won't generate the interest and ratings they hope it will, I think the mega conferences will begin to dissolve back into more regional associations. That might be where our best opportunity lies.

  98. AppMan

    July 3, 2012 at 12:32 am

    Greg I think just the opposite will take place. IMO, this is just the first step towards creating a super division. The playoff will generate untold riches and players will demand a part of it. Once that Genie is out of the bottle we will see four, perhaps five, 16 team super conferences emerge. It will be the best thing that could ever possibly happen for ASU. CUSA, Mtn West, MAC, WAC, Sun Belt and upper tier of FCS will form a second division. Since they do not have access to the mega revenue streams they will be exempt from the player stipens and offer fewer scholarships & coaches to keep costs down. You might be surprised to know how many AD's out there – in FBS – are pulling for this to happen as quickly as possible.

  99. Greg

    July 3, 2012 at 12:47 am

    Appman, I really hope it doesn't go that way. To me, the scenario you laid out is like pandora's box.

    I do think the massive amounts of revenue college football makes should be shared with the players but in a university controlled manner similar to the way Appalachian does its meal plans (if you're a recent grad you're probably familiar with the same system I had there). Players can use their "app cards" at an increasing number of places on and off campus i.e. gas and entertainment options. Once you start putting cash in a college athelete's hands and say "do what you want to" you're not supporting them you're paying them and college football becomes no different than pro making the big and rich programs bigger and richer.

  100. Greg

    July 3, 2012 at 12:49 am

    And Appman, what makes this "second division" any different from a 1-AA? Doesn't a second tier embody everything we're trying to escape now?

  101. Jack '74

    July 3, 2012 at 2:10 am

    You are right on that, Greg.

    There is/was a reason why there used to be a Division I-AA and now our current, beloved FCS. It's an application of the "Golden Rule"–"Them that has the gold, makes the rules". No matter how ambitious the Appalachian States of the football world become, the boys, with the 100,000 seat ball parks and the $500 million (or more) per annum TV football scheme, will just keep on moving up when they occasionally see us in the rear view mirror. Playing second fiddle is still second fiddle, no matter the name of the band.

  102. bcoach

    July 3, 2012 at 3:23 am

    It just depends on how you look at it. Right now we are in the first tier of our division. We are striving to become the second tier of another division. Now the difference. We will never become first tier in this next division.

  103. MadDoctor

    July 3, 2012 at 3:55 am

    True Jack. So now we are looking in our rear view to make sure we don't become third fiddle. The differences between college basketball and football are like night and day. Basketball has it's traditional powers, but the inclusive tournament gives everyone a chance to be a part, and occasionally catch lightning in a bottle and make a lot of noise (e.g. Butler, George Mason, Davidson.) Football is so much more exclusive ad protective, as evidenced by the recent push for a few "super conferences" and a 4, rather than 8 or 16 team playoff. Why must it take another 20 years for the same folks who protected the old bowl/ BCS system to expand the playoffs and give the fans what they want? Anyway, GO APP!

  104. Gwaltineer

    July 3, 2012 at 4:12 am

    Appman, Greg, and bcoach just laid out a reality that most are not willing to accept.

    I understand that we have the capacity to be decent at in the second tier of the top level and that it drives many to want to move forward if possible. But it sure seems like a "meeh" move.

  105. Watauga 72

    July 3, 2012 at 5:37 am

    Dr Gonzo, on behalf of all raving, out of touch idiots, i resent your inclusion of mw in our group! A formal protest is hereby submitted.

  106. Dr. Gonzo

    July 3, 2012 at 5:50 am

    Watauga 72, I recall that inclusion and hereby submit myself for consideration!

  107. App Band

    July 3, 2012 at 6:59 am

    I heard over the weekend that the USC Gamecocks are looking for a new AD. Anybody think Cobb will try for that one….since he's already tried twice for two other jobs?

  108. appthunder90

    July 3, 2012 at 7:00 am

    i'll vouch for gonzo. like the rest of us, sometimes his comments are a little offcolor and off base but, this is a blog after all. (sigh) are you ggregg?

  109. appthunder90

    July 3, 2012 at 7:02 am

    i see what you all have been referring to regarding the crazy time capsule that our posts appear to be placed.


    i would say that it is worth checking into.

  110. Dr. Gonzo

    July 3, 2012 at 7:14 am

    Thanks 90. I thought the same thing about (sigh). ggregg would love to open up a two front war with me.

  111. Hubo

    July 3, 2012 at 7:19 am

    You really think FCS will become relevant if it decreased their playoffs to 8?


  112. Watauga 72

    July 3, 2012 at 7:25 am

    Agree that the playoffs should be more limited. Expanding the format adds too many games for the students and lessens the importance of the regular season.

  113. Watauga 72

    July 3, 2012 at 7:33 am

    Does anyone really believe that ASU football will become more relevant on the national scene if, instead of playing for a true national championship at FCS level, we are playing for a berth in the Alpo dog food bowl? I do not. The only advantage to changing levels, all else remaining the same, would be enhanced tv revenues. These would have to cover the substantial increase in costs.

  114. Watauga 72

    July 3, 2012 at 7:48 am

    On a more serious note, North Carolina has lost a great representative with the passing of Andy Griffith.

  115. Carbine

    July 3, 2012 at 8:17 am

    And why, exactly, does it matter to any ASU fan what they call us? Would any of you be any less an ASU fan if the NCAA reorganized the college football world into a Division I of 60 schools, a Division II of 120 schools (including ASU), and everyone else in Division III? Do the labeles "Division II" and "FCS" really have anything to do with your attachment to the team or your enjoyment of the games?

    I'll support ASU football wherever it winds up. I just hope that wherever that is we can be competitive. I think any reasonable person knows that's not in what is now called FBS.

  116. appthunder90

    July 3, 2012 at 8:29 am

    Andy Griffith is a bona fide legend. May he ever rest in peace. Men, comb your hair over out of respect for the good sheriff.

  117. (sigh)

    July 3, 2012 at 8:37 am

    Nope, Im not ggregg from mmb.

    Gonzo – ok, my comment lumping you in the same boat with MIDWEST was a bit much. I take it back. However it doesn't change how I feel about how you treat others that disagree with you. Others just confirmed the "off color" comments with which I was referring to.

    Ultimately, I dont care that youve been on this blog a long time and have rlationships with others because of it. Lets end the pissing contest please and call it done.

  118. (sigh)

    July 3, 2012 at 8:37 am

    RIP Mr. Griffith…

  119. Dr. Gonzo

    July 3, 2012 at 8:43 am

    Fair enough, (sigh). I'll keep that in mind next time. It's easy to be abrasive on a message board when there's a disagreement I suppose. I swear I'm pretty easy to get along with in person.

  120. Dr. Gonzo

    July 3, 2012 at 8:45 am

    RIP Sheriff. Even in his old age, he still looked younger than Ron Howard.

  121. Rick

    July 3, 2012 at 8:49 am

    In "relevent for the football season" news, not sure if its been reported here, App signed a 6'5" 250 JuCo tight end to help replace Trevor Sawyer this season. Sounds like a good get. Been reported on Mountaineer Illustrated now. Sorry, but with all my friend's gone from the staff now, I don't get the word much earlier than anyone else anymore. If you need any updates on USC, Wake, ECU or Western though … lol.

  122. apppreacher

    July 3, 2012 at 9:30 am

    "Call the man Aunt Bee"…….Andy and Doc, both North Carolina legends….

  123. Lamontster

    July 3, 2012 at 9:43 am

    RIP Andy… a class ACT NC ICON.

  124. Watauga 72

    July 3, 2012 at 9:44 am

    Greg, are you posting from somewhere in the middle of the Atlantic or are you truly several hours ahead of the rest of us? If the latter, please let us know how the stock market ends today.

  125. Lamontster

    July 3, 2012 at 9:44 am

    Didn't the SoCon give us a deadline of today?

  126. AppWyo

    July 3, 2012 at 11:44 am

    I think Booby Knight was right when he said the field of March Madness should go to 128 teams that way no one can say they should have gone when they didn't. It would only be one more game. With just eight teams even 16 teams it is still too few percentage wise of the teams that have a chance at competing. The more people involved the less chance it will seem that something underhanded is happening.

  127. AppWyo

    July 3, 2012 at 11:49 am

    The regular season would not become less because of a playoff. You still have to make the field. The regular season would be relavant to your placement in the bracket. The regular season is not relavant now if you can make a bowl with only 6 wins. That argument against a playoff is just plain silly. Call the MAN.

  128. randy

    July 3, 2012 at 12:02 pm

    If anything, basketball should have less teams in the tournament than football. It is more difficult to judge how good teams are when they play 11-12 games instead of 30+. Although I know there are many other factors to consider.

  129. Greg

    July 3, 2012 at 12:11 pm

    Personally I'd like to see the FCS playoff shrink back to 8 teams. The inherent beauty of the old BCS system is it makes each regular season game count that much more, i.e. if you want to play for a national championship or top tier bowl you weren't allowed to have bad games (maybe one upset but certainly not 8-4).

    The exclusivity and excitement of the BCS system is still in tact with a 4 team playoff, which is what the FCS is losing by adding more and more teams to the playoff.

    Forgive me because I don't have last years tournament seedings in front of me. But my guess is an 8 team FCS playoff gives you only one or two losses (disregarding FBS money games) on the regular season to play with.

    Increase exclusivity, demand better play and FCS football has its relevancy, invite more and more teams into the tourney, water down the competition, and the "second tier" label sticks.

  130. NK

    July 3, 2012 at 12:22 pm

    An eight team FCS playoff, if conferences were still to receive auto bids would be impossible. There were eight auto bid leagues prior to expansion, Big Sky,CAA, OVC, MEAC, MVFC, Patriot, Southern, Southland.

  131. APPFanAl

    July 3, 2012 at 12:43 pm

    Damn….first Doc…now Andy….NC has really lost some giants this year….

  132. Know Nothing

    July 3, 2012 at 2:13 pm

    If they refer to us as Division 2 now… they will call us Division 3 after the big 4 go….

  133. Avery

    July 3, 2012 at 2:59 pm

    Too bad we can't lose Cobb.

  134. Anyman

    July 3, 2012 at 5:05 pm

    Mouse nuts.

    Wish Obey would stop bye from time to time. Nothing happening here.

  135. Reese

    July 3, 2012 at 8:27 pm

    I hate the people that say, "if we move up, it won't matter because we'll just be playing in the bowl every year". Yeah, because playing in Frisco, TX in front of 10K people in a SMALL SOCCER STADIUM is better? Oh yeah, our big conference games were being shown in front of around only 14 million homes on PBS last year. And god knows who the hell actually tuned into PBS to watch Socon football. The PBS broadcast was like watching a high school recording.

    When we move up we have a chance of one day winning our conference and playing in a major bowl game. We will get our games televised on REAL TV stations every week AND get the occasional nationally televised prime time game. THAT WOULD BE SUCH A BUMMER TO PLAY TEAMS LIKE WAKE FOREST. UNCC, OR ECU IN BOONE.

    Some of you guys can say, "oh we'll just play in the (insert sarcastic bowl game name) and be mediocre forever if we move to FBS". Sorry guys, BUT YOU PLAY TO WIN. I believe in my university, the tradition of app state football, and our eventual success at the highest level. It probably won't be this year, but after some of the bigger conferences take shape finally, ASU will find it's way into a FBS conference in the next few years.

  136. Carbine

    July 3, 2012 at 9:14 pm

    Reese, I think playing for an FCS national championship in Frisco or wherever they do it years from now would be great. As you say, you play the game to WIN, and that being the case, it really doesn't matter what division you're playing in as long as you're competitive and win.

    I used to think there was a decent chance we would be invited to join an FBS conference, but the invites have gone out and we were not included. Instead, schools with very different characteristics than ours have gotten invites. Face it–we are not what they are looking for. And that's fine with me. I don't think we would do very well in FBS, and I'd rather see us win games (that is why we play, isn't it?) than get abused every Saturday like Duke.

  137. GoApps73

    July 4, 2012 at 7:48 am

    Dead Horse is beaten. Please stop the abuse of the deceased.

    Also, it is not that the barn door has been closed after the horse has been stolen. Rather, the horse is still there but the barn has been stolen.

  138. Reese

    July 4, 2012 at 9:00 am

    Way to say our university short by saying you don't think we'll win games, and get "abused by Duke". I don't think that we would get abused by Duke now. If you don't think we could beat Duke or at least play a close game against Duke right now, I don't believe that you've been watching the way ASU has been playing football in the past decade.

    Of course, we not going to win 10 games out the door for the first years after moving up. Winning and success comes with time, patience, and a dedication to succeed. I'm not scared of having a few mediocre seasons because I think we have a great team, facilities, and leaders to win at the highest level.

    But by all means, continue to be happy playing in Frisco, TX in front of 9K people. And saying we'll lose to Duke…

  139. Reese

    July 4, 2012 at 9:01 am

    **way to sell our university short

  140. Reese

    July 4, 2012 at 9:02 am

    But until we do move up (which will happen in the next few years), I'm completely behind the team and I want to roll through the playoffs and be national champions. Even if it is in a soccer stadium in Frisco, TX

  141. bcoach

    July 4, 2012 at 10:03 am

    He said LIKE Duke not BY Duke. I think there were a couple more people in texas then 10 well now 9 and who knows where you will go next. I hate they left Chatty but it is what it is and we still have the only national Championship game in div 1 football.

  142. Reese

    July 4, 2012 at 10:14 am

    Excuse me, there were 20K people there at "pizza hut park". Thank you so much for calling me out for accidentally saying 9K instead of 10K. you're a good proof reader. way to go.

    Anyways, way to compare ASU football to Duke football! I can tell you're a really dedicated fan.

  143. yosef82

    July 4, 2012 at 11:25 am


    July 4, 2012 at 1:01 pm

    **way to sell our university short

    Well Reese, selling Appalachian State short is a recreational sport for many of our "Fans"? Most of which can be found on the infamous MMB. I get sick of reading and listening to the self deprecating banter that some of these idiots cry about day in and day out.

    You know like, "We can get a real football coach. We have to settle for a middle of the pack performer that is planning to turn the reigns of the program over to his juvenile delinquent son that can't keep his junk in his pants". Or one of my personal favorites " We can't conduct a search for a new basketball coach….. we have to select one by playing Rock Paper Scissors". Hell after listening to some of these folks it sounds like we should not even be a University much less have an athletic department.

    Our fan base is full of small thinkers with no vision. Their attitude serves NO purpose but to hold the advancement of ASU in check. It makes you wonder how in the world we have survived since 1899.

    We are our own worst enemy!

  144. Carbine

    July 4, 2012 at 11:39 am

    Reese, two things. First, learn how to read–there is a HUGE difference in getting beaten like Duke (ie.: virtually every Saturday, and usually by lopsided scores) and beaten BY Duke (I'm pretty sure we could take Duke now, as in most years recently passed). Second, we are not going to be an FBS school anytime soon. Anyone who's been paying attention ought to know that by now. Every conference who might have had an interest in ASU has had a good, long look–and invited other schools instead of us.

    If that were to change sometime in the future and we became an FBS school, we would indeed get beaten like Duke, consistently and mercilessly, as soon as we started playing a full FBS schedule, and perhaps far into the future. There is no way that our beloved school will ever be truely competitive at the highest level of college football. As an FBS school we may beat ECU, Charlotte, and our old rival Marshall (and Duke if they'll play us) with regularity, but that and an occasional upset of one of the big boys is about as good as it will get.

  145. MadDoctor

    July 4, 2012 at 12:31 pm

    Keep the faith Yosef82. Hopefully, this vocal minority will one day find something in their lives to feel good about. I believe we could finish in the top half of the SBC now, and hold our own in a further weakened CUSA. Why anyone would be satisfied just collecting Mountain Jugs and SoCon Cups is beyond me. We are successful- Deal with it!

    It is a waste of time trying to convince trolls and self-loathers we belong in FBS, because they get their jollies from being depressing. Our time will come sooner, rather than later, and the naysayers can boo us through the fence at KBS, while we keep winning and adding seats.

  146. Carbine

    July 4, 2012 at 12:46 pm

    Project much, Mad Doctor? You sound awfully depressed about where we actually are, as opposed to where you imagine we might one day be. I, on the other hand, am about as happy an Appy as you can find right now. Winning those three national championships and a string of SoCon championships, and occasionally knocking off one of the bigs has made me so. In fact, as I recall it, those things made most every fan of ASU football pretty happy (I'm sorry you missed out on all that whilst brooding over our lack of bowl-hood). I'm so happy about it that I look forward to doing it again–and again, and again, and again.

    Now of course I'd still be happy (and shocked) if we did anywhere near as well as an FBS school, but I doubt that we will have to find out about that anytime soon. But you keep dreaming. Or smoking, whatever.

  147. JimC

    July 4, 2012 at 12:58 pm

    Good post MadDoctor.

    The historic success that App football has experienced at the FCS level is a primary driver in the desire to move to FBS by fans (even though a number of former 1AA teams moved up that never had great success at that level). It is only natural to want to be in the top classification. More importantly, fans do not want to see ASU lose ground after this success; and many fear that FCS is destined to decline relative to FBS. The range of schools in the division is too broad, and recent changes (excessive playoff participants)cements a trend toward watering down the quality even further. I would be happy to see ASU in an FBS conference (Sun Belt or any other), going to a Bowl Game occasionally (even if only a mid-tier one at best), and for once getting coverage in the pre-season sports publications that devote 1 page to FCS while even the lowest tier FBS teams get a review. And there is always hope of becoming the next Boise State someday.

  148. MadDoctor

    July 4, 2012 at 1:07 pm

    Nope Carbine. I'm thrilled where we are- on the brink of moving up to a new challenge. Sometimes you have stretch the old comfort zone. How can we expect our athletes to dream big, if we think and act so small. I made three trips to Chattanooga, and many to KBS, and enjoyed them all, but like it or not, change happens, and our natural progression is to move up. Having high expectations is a wonderful thing. You might want to try it sometime.

  149. carbine

    July 4, 2012 at 7:10 pm

    It's a free country, and you can dream all you like. But at the end of the day you either face the reality of FCS football (which is fine with me) or you retreat to a fantasy world more to your own liking.

    And JimC, what do you mean when you say FCS is "destined to decline relative to FBS?" What does anyone mean when they say that? Can anyone give an answer to that question that passes the "so what?" test?

  150. appdreamin

    July 5, 2012 at 7:38 am

    Pizza Hut Park is not a small soccer stadium, at least not in this country. It does make for a small football stadium, however, although PHP's capacity is roughly equivalent to that in Chattanooga.

    The only real negatives about playing the FCS championship in a modern soccer stadium are:

    1 the stigma that the majority of US sports fans assigns to anything related to soccer;

    2 the additional 20 – 30 yards of width of a soccer field (yeah, I know it's called a “pitch”) pushes fans farther from the sidelines than in "traditional" football-only facilities (but no farther than does a track, as in KBS);

    3 the fact that this particular soccer stadium happens to be in (a) Texas and (b) a suburban setting.

    I don't know where MLS teams like Philadelphia or New England or DC United play, but I don't think they play in the suburbs. Holding the FCS championship in one of those soccer-specific or soccer-converted facilities would cure some of the PHP negatives, though certainly not the first one.

    Re: FCS vs. FBS – at the outset (a few years ago) of the semi-serious to serious discussion concerning which D-1 division is more appropriate for App, I was firmly in the stay-FCS camp. As time has passed and changes have occurred (including some of those mentioned above–e.g., many stronger FCS programs moving to or aspiring to move to FBS, expansion and resultant watering down of the playoff field, etc.), my opinion has gradually changed. Like carbine, I have doubts that we would ever be as consistently successful in FBS as we've been in FCS, even in a lower-level FBS league. Unlike carbine, I don't think we should remain at a level that seems to be steadily decreasing in quality of competition and, therefore, relevance. FCS seems to be firmly on the path to niche status within the college football world, similar to DII and DIII. That may be okay, but it doesn’t feel to me the place App should reside.

    However, as carbine says, moving or not isn't ultimately within our control, and it is at least a possibility that an invitation to join FBS never comes. If that happens–or until an invitation comes, if one ever does—our goal should be to go undefeated in year after year after year. That is unrealistic, but nothing less is an unacceptable goal as long as we're in FCS, where we should annually be one of the top five or so teams.

  151. Reese

    July 5, 2012 at 10:51 am

    I'm excited for my ASU football team and I'm looking forward to gearing up for the playoffs this year. As for now, ASU in playing FCS football and I can't wait to keep kicking ass and taking names.

    However, I greatly anticipate app moving up and competing at the level our university deserves and has worked towards. FBS will happen within the next 4-5 years after the larger conferences finally take shape and vacate open spots in the smaller conferences.

    Carbine, you're right it is a free country and I'm glad you can share your opinion and I respect what you're saying. But I'm VERY glad the majority of out fan base doesn't share you pessimism.

  152. Reese

    July 5, 2012 at 10:54 am

    If Carbine was the chancellor, ASU would still be a teacher's college.

  153. carbine

    July 5, 2012 at 11:46 am

    See, I don't get the "pessimism" charge at all. I think we're going GREAT right where we are, and since it looks like we're here to stay (in FCS) I'm completely satisfied. I don't see how that adds up to pessimistic.

    If you all are refering to how I think we would fare in FBS, all I can say is from my point of view I'm not at all pessimistic, just realistic.

    And no, Reese, if I had my way Appalachian wouldn't still be a teachers' college. I fully support the academic expansion that has gone on at ASU over the last several decades, and only wish we could do more in that regard.

  154. bcoach

    July 5, 2012 at 12:41 pm


    Adding 20 to the mix only confuses us more. You tried to correct your mistake of saying there were 9k instead of 10k by saying there were 20k. Then you throw out things like the majority of fans support the move. In reality that MAY be true but we don't know because the consultants just didn't think that was very important to know. APPDREAMIN and Carbine actually share the opinion of a lot of people (notice I didn't say most because there is no way to know that). A lot of people myself included are in line with or in the vicinity of these two guys. Why does that make someone a defeatist or any of the other names they are called? What is wrong with being thankful for, and happy with, what you have? Why can you not hope to have what you want without degrading others for what they want? As an example I have no use for some bowl that to me means absolutely nothing. Did you notice that I expressed my distaste for the bowl system without calling bowl lovers names? If you like them then go to them and enjoy. Your enjoyment does not bother me at all and in fact I am happy for you. Why the hatred for those of us who like the playoffs?

  155. Reese

    July 5, 2012 at 1:07 pm

    I like the playoffs as well (as stated twice above), but unfortunately they are becoming more and more irrelevant…hence we are playing the championship game in Frisco, TX in an awkward soccer complex. I think that we have dominated at this level of play for a number of years. Why not give the next level a try? It's like staying content to ride a moped when you have the possibility of having a harley. Also it's like staying in an entry level job with several masters degrees. Or settling for the "easy" girl (or guy?) at the bar instead of taking a shot at the gorgeous one.

    If you're happy with that, that's fine. And I do understand that there's a lot of App fans out there that are happy with that as well. And that's great, go for it. But this university has grown and achieved too much to settle on the moped, the mediocre job, or easy girl at the bar.

    Oh and by the way, you pro FCS guys might want to ask the future alums walking around campus what they want our football team to do…I spent 4 years there and I encountered very few people that want to stay in FCS. And you know what, those kids walking around campus are your university's future monetary donors. I highly doubt that they're going to be AS motivated to send big dollars to a university that is still playing FCS football.

    I'm sorry, I've heard your arguments and it just doesn't make sense to me.

  156. Reese

    July 5, 2012 at 1:16 pm

    You can bad mouth and hurl all the vitriol at smaller conferences or bowl games if you want to, but the fact of the matter is that those teams still get more media and national coverage that app does. At least they get prime time games and get to watch their football teams on real TV (AND NOT Some of our playoff games aren't even truly televised.

    Look at Louisiana-Monroe's (sun belt) schedule for the first three games this year:

    ARKANSAS (Home)

    AUBURN (Away)

    BAYLOR (Home)

    How proud would you be if we hosted games from ACC/Big East/SEC teams in Boone one day down the line? Do I think we'll move up this year? Of course not. Will it be in the next 4 to 5 years? You bet. Enjoy the ride, because I can't wait to see the heights my alma mater can reach.

    -Just another proud App State graduate who refuses to settle.

  157. Reese

    July 5, 2012 at 1:18 pm

    Oh and by the way, sorry for giving the wrong attendance numbers for that national championship game last year. I was thinking of a couple years ago with that awful game between Nova and Eastern Washington

  158. Watauga 72

    July 5, 2012 at 2:06 pm

    "I hate the people that say, “if we move up, it won’t matter because we’ll just be playing in the bowl every year”. "

    Hate much? Reese, I'm glad you're a huge supporter of ASU. However, just because others may not share your glorious vision of our football future doesn't mean you need to demean them or their viewpoints. Too much of that crap on this site with midwest and it's ilk.

  159. Reese

    July 5, 2012 at 2:21 pm

    *I dislike/loathe/etc. i don't hate them. anything is "glorious" compared to beating savannah state/nccu/jacksonville state every year 45-14. Maybe we'll get to play Lenoir Rhyne again.

  160. Reese

    July 5, 2012 at 2:23 pm

    Can't imagine not destroying NCCU every year by 40. Those wins are real "program builders". You can tell it's a program builder when every leaves at halftime because we're up 4 touchdowns.

  161. Greg

    July 5, 2012 at 2:56 pm


    You don't seem to know how hosting the FCS championship game works. It's not as if the game wandered into the desert hoping to find a field. Cities make bids to host the national championship for a block of X number of years. We were VERY fortunate that our success came when the game was being hosted in near-by Chattanooga.

    Frisco is a suburb of Dallas (if I'm not mistaken) and is a brand new state of the art facility. Yeah it's a soccer field, and is shaped a little goofy, but we have a goofy high school track around our field too.

  162. Watauga 72

    July 5, 2012 at 3:29 pm

    News flash for you Reese….none of us have any control over where we end up. I plan on supporting my school regardless. If you don't want to see them play whoever's on the schedule, please stay away. You're obviously not old enough to remember when we were in the same division as UNC, Wake, South Carolina, etc…we were actually in the same conference as ECU. Check the records….you'll not find an instance when any of these non-conference schools ventured up to Boone. Having them come into Boone might actually cost us money compared to playing at their place.

    Not that it means anything in today's NCAA world, but in 1975 we beat ECU, South Carolina, and Wake Forest. Guess which bowl game we played in as a reward.

  163. bcoach

    July 5, 2012 at 4:47 pm


    Yes those alum may contribute some day but up to this point it just has not happened very often. It is the old farts that carry the load. Would it surprise you to know that only 9% of alum contribute? Can we count on you to start calling your buddies to solicit their help? OR, do you just want to tell us what we should be doing to include footing the bill? One last point. Read what I said. I did not call the bowls all kinds of names. I just said I have no use for them.

  164. bcoach

    July 5, 2012 at 4:56 pm

    OOPS forgot this one. we really don't want to hear about people leaving because we are up by 4 as that is rare that we are up by 28 points at the half. We watch them leave with the game on the line. These folks that are our "future contributors" are not even there for football so why the heck should they care what divesion we are in?

  165. Watauga 72

    July 5, 2012 at 5:24 pm

    By the way, Reese, UL-M does not host Arkansas. The only one of the three you listed they host is Baylor.

    Now, if the argument is that by moving up we would generate more revenue by playing at Auburn, Florida, and maybe hosting Wake Forest in the same season, ok, I understand that. But schools like Auburn, Mich, Alabama, Clemson, etc are not coming to Boone.

  166. Reese

    July 6, 2012 at 4:12 am

    You don't need to give me your "holier than thou" history lesson on ASU football. I get it, you're a bit older than I am and remember more app state football history from the 70's. I tip my hat to you sir. I like people that stick with their teams. ASU is a special place, and people tend to stick around once they spend time in Boone. But all do respect, drop the condescending thing.

    And don't give the the "if you don't like it, you can get out" attitude. I sit through all those arse kickings we hand inferior teams. Because I love ASU football. My point was that watching those repetitive arse kickings handed out to teams like NCCU don't draw crowds, casual fans, or retain the fans that come to the games. It's hard for families to plan a trip to Boone for a weekend to watch us annihilate bad football teams. This does nothing to promote the ASU brand.

    Of course we don't have any control of where we end up. What have I said to imply anything otherwise. It'll happen in the next 5 years though. Academically speaking, ASU is the second best (behind UNC) in the state of NC. I've had the privilege to attend both, and I don't really give a crap about UNC, ASU is where my heart is at. Sorry, ASU has a bigger and better things coming!

    Oh yeah, I'm pretty sure these worthless bowl games you guys toss around are played in stadiums dedicated as football venues, not soccer parks…

  167. appdreamin

    July 6, 2012 at 4:57 am

    "Not that it means anything in today’s NCAA world, but in 1975 we beat ECU, South Carolina, and Wake Forest. Guess which bowl game we played in as a reward."

    In the interests of complete disclosure, especially for those who weren't around for the 1975 season, Watauga 72 listed the three season highlights–wins over ECU, Wake and SoCar. Unfortunately, there were also three low-lights: we lost to Furman, Richmond and Western Carolina, and finished 8-3. Even if there had been 437 bowl games as there are (seemingly) now, those three losses probably would have kept us from getting a bowl invitation.

    For additional clarification (though I don't think Watauga 72 was including ECU as one of those non-con teams that have never been to App since, at the time, ECU was still in SoCon), the 1975 ECU game was in Boone. We won 41-25, as I recall, and it was never really that close.

  168. Watauga 72

    July 6, 2012 at 7:30 am

    Appdreamin, you're correct. ECU was in our conference at the time so they were coming to Boone every other year.

  169. a123louie

    July 6, 2012 at 7:39 am

    It seems this site has deteriorated to a group of whiners who all think ASU should play big time football. ASU may leave the FCS, but will never play in the Big Time – in a serious bowl game. The reason is there are few serious bowl games- most bowl games are meaningless shows played by players who have been over rewarded the night before.

    My view is the FBS holds only mediocracy for ASU, with no hope of asiring to any greatness whatever. I think ASU should try to win some home playoff games as a worthy ambition and forget running off to join the circus.

  170. Watauga 72

    July 6, 2012 at 8:53 am

    Reese, my do you have anger and hate issues. I would try to be polite and nice to you but you've already expressed your hatred and disdain for anyone who thinks differently, so you don't deserve anything but condescension and derision.

    What difference does it make where a bowl game or playoff game is played? If they had the FCS championship in Cowboy stadium rather than in Frisco, just down the road, would that make a bit of difference? There are minor bowl games played in places like the Superdome….a crowd of 15-20K looks even smaller in a large venue.

    That's about it for me. This subject has been beaten around so much that further discussion only leads to personal attacks such as yours. It's all your now, you win!

  171. bcoach

    July 6, 2012 at 10:15 am

    Anger is a defense used by those that have no defense. Hatred comes to some people when they are proven wrong

  172. a123louie

    July 6, 2012 at 11:22 am

    Home FCS playoff games are fun. That's the difference. More are better. see?

  173. Reese

    July 6, 2012 at 12:05 pm

    I apologized for using the word "hate". I strongly dislike. Stop bringing it up, you've got your point across. I get it, I'm the mean poster and you're the victim. gotcha. What have I done and said to offend you all so dearly? I kind of thought we were just having a good old fashioned heated argument? If you can handle a good argument on a blog, I'm not sure what to do for you. I took back the word hate, and apologized. Cmon guys.

    And you guys keep bringing up small bowl games to compare them to the national championship FCS game. App isn't moving up to just strive to play in small bowl games every year. You work to play in the large BCS bowl games.

    But we're not there yet. Until then, I'm excited to keep going to our home playoff games and more national championship games. You guys keep making it out that I hate FCS and the playoffs. Instead, I want to see us host FBS teams in Boone and have a chance to play a better schedule against real teams.

  174. GoApps73

    July 9, 2012 at 4:05 am

    Let us turn our attention to the upcoming ECU and Montana games. It would definitely be nice to run the table. I am really looking forward to see what kind of running game we will have this time around. It was "weak" last year.

    And men's basketball season is around the corner.


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