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We’re not that different after all

Oh, obviously! The moment I sat down I thought I was looking into a mirror. Tell us if you’ve heard this before.

A football-obsessed school feels it’s outgrown its stable. It’s looking to move to bigger – and more profitable – pastures.

It packs the place every gameday. Is no stranger to the postseason. And strikes fear in the *coughcough* “BCS” powers in-state.

App State, meet your brother by another mother, East Carolina. Both teams are on the same treadmill, though aaaarrrgh-uably one has several more miles clocked than the other.

App State annually leads the FCS in attendance. ECU boasts the second-best average home attendance among non-BCS schools.

App has won numerous league titles and is a traditional lock for the postseason. ECU won CUSA in ’08 and ’09, and often goes bowling.

Outside of Raleigh, the in-state *coughcough* “BCS” schools are scared to death of scheduling App State. Inside of Raleigh, a law was needed to force NC State and UNC Chapel Hill to schedule the Pirates.

We guess this is why Saturday looks to be such a big, fun day. It’s like we were meant to be together!

Similarities don’t end there.

Everyone knows App State wants to move up to a new division. ECU, already FBS but not BCS, is not only on that same wavelength, but much more desperate.

Dignity? What dignity? All the Big East needs to do is schedule their day in the barrel, and ECU is so there.

Openly announcing that you’ve applied to a different conference is a curious definition of “remaining focused” on succeeding in Conference USA, we’d argue, and when we say “openly” we mean it. Contrast the continued (open) secrecy of, say, West Virginia’s attempt to join the ACC or SEC with e-mailing 50 different media members the news of your application before the Big East has even had a chance to give it a serious thought – it arrived the same day ECU announced they’d put it in the mail – and you’ll see how badly the Pirates want to be taken as a serious candidate for Big East expansion.

We ain’t hatin’. Heck, tell us what day the CUSA barrel is free. App State would no doubt take it.

But for way too many years we’ve heard angry screeds that if only App State had imitated ECU way back when D1 was split, things would be totally different today.

Maybe. But it sure looks like, maybe not.

Beat EZU.

31 Comments

  1. Murray

    August 29, 2012 at 5:52 am

    Before App ever moves to BCS, we will need a new Athletic Director and new Chancellor.

  2. Deano

    August 29, 2012 at 5:55 am

    ECU has been prosperous, and once the school moved up to DIV 1 in 1978 things took off for them until recently. As everyone knows they have been stuck in CUSA for a few years and their location recently has hurt them for any chances at moving into a BCS conference. ASU had a choice to move up with ECU but decided not too. Even with not being in the "big leagues" ASU has been able to grow its program by leaps and bounds. So ECU fans should not shudder when there are comparisons to how alike we are.

  3. Apps_Aj11

    August 29, 2012 at 6:13 am

    Why do people think that ASU has a shot of ever playing in the BCS? Further, why do they want ASU to play in the BCS??

  4. appdreamin

    August 29, 2012 at 6:16 am

    Numerous similarities exist, but at entirely different levels.

    Murray-when did anyone at App voice thoughts of moving to BCS? Is that a slip on your part, or are you saying you're okay with Cobb and Peacock if we move to FBS, as in CUSA or SunBelt?

  5. AppWyo

    August 29, 2012 at 6:23 am

    Why would you not want to be in the BCS? If you move up, shouldn't you want to be a big dog? Why move up if you don't want to play at the highest level possible? If we can't play at the highest level why move up? when we are playing at the highest possible level now.

  6. John

    August 29, 2012 at 7:23 am

    Why move up to BCS?

    Considering some of the BCS members receive $25,000,000 per year for just playing football in one of the top five conferences should be reason enough.

  7. MIDWEST

    August 29, 2012 at 7:42 am

    FCS is a stupid, dying league. No one is lined up to move down to FCS.

  8. The BoogieMan

    August 29, 2012 at 8:01 am

    How many times are we going to visit this, ASU chained up all the doors, closed all the windows and switched up all the locks back in the early 80's by not moving up with the rest of the big boys, they had no vision for moving up in the future back then. Fast forward 30 years and because no one in Boone, NC really took a hard look at this back then, this is where they are stuck for now….This has hampered ASU to no ends, now its all about how big your market is media wise, its about how many TV's you have in your area, how many roads and airports you have, never mind if you have never even played a down of quality football, come on in because of where you are at. ECU is stuck and so is ASU for the time being. As you can tell it annoys the Boogieman to no ends. I pray that the UNCC's and ODU's get beat like they never have for the years to come in all of thier sports. Either way ASU has built a quality football program, its had its up and down seasons like last year but the people at these FBS conferences could seem to could care less. Maybe its time for someone to take the NCAA to court. Either way ASU probably wont see an FBS conference for at least 3-5 years. And thats being very optimistic.

  9. WER4ASU

    August 29, 2012 at 9:09 am

    I AGRRE WITH EVERYTHING YOU POSTED ESPECIALLY THE PART ABOUT GOING TO COURT. HOWEVER I REALLY THINK IT'S THE BCS WE NEED TO TAKE ON.

  10. MJT

    August 29, 2012 at 10:24 am

    This topic is dead.

    We can't change the fact that we didn't make the move back in 1978. We would have never had the type of success we've had over the past few years if we weren't in the FCS. We would have never recruited players like Armanti, Brian Quick, Jason Hunter, etc. They came to Appalachian because they had an immediate chance to play.

    Let's concentrate on what we do well both as a university in terms of academics (first and foremost) and as an athletic program. Talking about FCS, FBS, BCS, etc. is simply played out.

    Next topic please….

  11. AppfanJared

    August 29, 2012 at 11:08 am

    MJT +1

  12. The BoogieMan

    August 29, 2012 at 11:11 am

    MJT, no one knows that without a crystal ball….If memory holds correct ASU did beat USC in 1975 39-34. So who in fact knows what really could have been. The SoCon in two years may be very different and ASU will still be sitting around in it.

  13. MJT

    August 29, 2012 at 11:49 am

    Good point, Boogieman.

    As I pointed out in yesterday's posting, App and USC were both in the same division in 1975 since that game occurred before the D1 split in 1978. That game is essentially comparing apples to apples.

    The point I was attempting to make is that I'm tired of hearing about this FCS/FBS discussion, and I think/hope I speak for a lot of App fans. We aren't an FBS school. Let's face it. We compete in FCS and until we move up, let's own this division each year and prove that we belong with the FBS schools.

  14. bcoach

    August 29, 2012 at 12:39 pm

    It just can't be true. How long can you keep it up? How can you be so miserable with where we are and still keep going to games? I have not looked at this thing for a couple weeks. I pull it up today and you are still at it. It just makes most of us miserable. I am gone again. This is just horrible.

  15. Carbine

    August 29, 2012 at 12:58 pm

    FCS isn't dying; it's in the same shape it's always been in, maybe a little better. It's also the right level for ASU. Try to enjoy it. You might as well, since there is no prospect of us moving anytime soon. "Done deals" notwithstanding.

  16. GeneGenethedancingma

    August 29, 2012 at 2:45 pm

    Replacing Nevada, Boise, Central Florida, Marshall, ALL the Sunbelt schools, N Texas, and UMass with a bunch of D-II move ups has made FCS "a little better" off? Really?

  17. AppMan

    August 29, 2012 at 3:24 pm

    FCS is "the right level for ASU"?

    What actually factors into determining the right level? Taking into consideration fan base, private & corporate financial support, facilities, attendance and overall scope of the program the numbers indicate the exact opposite. With those factors in play about 75 programs (roughly 58%) in FBS actually fall into the catagory of ASU having little to nothing in common with. Leaving 55 or so (42%) we have very much in common with. Out of 165 FCS programs there are less than 10 FCS programs ASU has much of anything in common with (6%). Leaving around 155 (94%) we have little to nothing in common with. You might try and argue the FCS numbers a bit, but based on the parameters given I'd say you really can't. Even if there were 20 FCS programs on par with ASU, that leaves a staggering almost 90% that aren't. ASU looks far more like an FBS program than one in FCS .

  18. CUSA

    August 29, 2012 at 3:41 pm

    This post was 100% satire right?

    If not, bahahahahahahahaha.

  19. appdreamin

    August 29, 2012 at 4:41 pm

    I agree completely, AppMan. I'm not sure what triggered the revived debate above, but if it had anything to do with my post I believe several misunderstood me. All I intended to do was point out to Murray his apparent confusion of BCS and FBS levels.

    To those wondering why we wouldn't want to be in BCS if that were possible, I believe we certainly would. But at present, we can't even get into FBS. It's the old walk before you run thing; at the moment, no one is even letting us walk.

  20. Carbine

    August 29, 2012 at 6:12 pm

    Appfan, you've proven my point. We are the top of FCS–the perfect position to be in. If we move up to FBS we will join that 58% of programs that are just there for the others to beat up on–not a good place to be at all. Now when we have the necessary wherewithal (TV market, etc.) to actually compete at the FBS level, I'll be happy to see us take our place among the big boys. Anyone who thinks we're there now is dreaming or high.

  21. The BoogieMan

    August 29, 2012 at 6:33 pm

    My point is this, UNCC gets into Conference USA because of market only, ASU is left out because of less TV's and a smaller market this is what drives these decisions at this point in time, and I dont think it will change any time soon. I remember along time ago you could havecalled Virginia Tech back in the late 70's not to far a head of ASU. Now 30 years later VT plays in the ACC, and ASU is still in the SoCon. If VT had the mind set of staying in the Southern Conference they would not be where they are at today, and I beleive ASU can succeed just like VT if given the chance. Yes I will still go to the games and yes I love ASU, but I beleive this football team can succeed in a bigger pond.

  22. AppMan

    August 30, 2012 at 5:24 am

    CUSA here's some satire for you. CUSA belongs in the BCS.

    Carbine why do you say those 58% are there just to get beat up on by the "others" (which I assume you mean BCS programs)? Do they not play in their own conference for a championships? If, as you claim, being in a division where you have commonality with over half the division is "not a good place to be at all", what do you call being in a division where you have almost nothing in common with 90% of the programs?

  23. Ryan

    August 30, 2012 at 8:14 am

    "My point is this, UNCC gets into Conference USA because of market only, ASU is left out because of less TV’s and a smaller market this is what drives these decisions at this point in time, and I dont think it will change any time soon."

    I don't agree with this assessment.

    UNCC got into Conference USA for a lot of reasons. Obviously market played a very big role however.

    UNCC/Charlotte was a charter member of CUSA and performed very well there for 10 years.

    They are a very large doctoral granting university, a Tier 1 university, and a research university. So are all the schools in CUSA, even if most of the schools in CUSA don't have stellar entry requirements.

    We are a non-research Master's level institution. Although academics in athletics have almost become laughable at this point, they do still come into play when conference decisions are made. It's why WVU didn't get into the ACC and why Louisville likely won't either. Conferences like to align themselves with schools that have relatively similar attributes.

    I'd put my App education against any in CUSA (except maybe Rice), but the reality is we do not fit the mold of the other institutions in CUSA.

    UNCC also has the benefit of having more than just a TV market. They are in an area with 7 Fortune 500 companies and several other companies that are Fortune 1000. That provides a lot of potential conference sponsorship partners.

    Throw in that the city has excellent facilities to host CUSA championship (BoA for football, TWC for basketball, and the new AAA baseball stadium being building downtown) and it make sense.

    Combine all of these things with their historical success in CUSA on all levels and you have a common sense addition.

    If CUSA were granting football only memberships, I'm sure we would have been one of the first one the list, but the reality is that our support and performance for other sports is fairly poor historically.

  24. Russ

    August 30, 2012 at 8:46 am

    Masters level research programs exist in biology, chemistry, physics, astronomy, geology, allied health(sports med, exercise phys) I think technology, and a couple of others. Our B school is probably the 3rd best in the state, our education school is the best in the state,we have an excellent music and arts dept all we are lacking is a medical school(we just have nursing) and a Law Skool…The Rice analogy is dead correct. We are almost the exact same school as Rice, except we are not in a huge market(Houston). I still think we get an invite to ACC when Miami VT FSU and Clemson bail. ACC is positioning themselves to be Basketball conf first, Football second. Because we are in the ACC other SEC and Big 12 teams would want to schedule us because we are still a major conf, but a less talented team, so we get nice bonus checks in football and bbal. All our other sports compete well againt acc teams. it will enhance our recruiting pool nationally of 4 str and 5 star athletes that want to play but did not get the 1st string scholarships… It makes sense geographically, it , and make sense media market wise, it makes sense academically, and when it happens it will be shaggadelic baby

  25. appdreamin

    August 30, 2012 at 11:08 am

    Not sure I follow that. Are you comparing an App degree to one from Rice? Or a Charlotte degree to one from Rice? Either comparison is quite a stretch.

  26. Russ

    August 30, 2012 at 11:35 am

    Neither really, just the similarities between Rice and ASU academic program offerings/research opportunities is very similar although rices academic repp/standards for admin do make it more ivy league-ish.

  27. Appthunder90

    August 30, 2012 at 8:45 pm

    Russ

    Just to make sure that I understand your post correctly, you are asserting that based on the fact that the acc is trying to return to being a basketball minded conference, app will be invited?

  28. JMcCray

    August 31, 2012 at 2:43 am

    I think you mean App has a Master's level program in Geography, Russ. Unless you mean that the quality of the education in the geology program is Master's level, which I would agree.

  29. Russ

    August 31, 2012 at 4:18 am

    The assertion is that the majority of our other sports would fit into the ACC and be somewhat competitive right away, and that with the ACC shifting to a bball mindset, it allows them to bring in a smaller school with a litlle less talent like App. My thought process is it seems with the building of the convocation center, our geographic location to the majority of original ACC schools, our current AD and Chancellors connections within the ACC, and the fact that the Academic Standards of the ACC (not counting the Carolina cheating scandal thing) we would be an excellent fit on the occassion that VT, miami, FSU, and Clemson all bailed to major football confs. It would solve the media issue, because not only would it draw our alumni viewing massess, but the other ACC team also in our VA, NC, SC, GA region. It would more than likely be announced in enough time to reap some recruiting benefits in both Basketball and Football, and yes we would likely be last or close to the bottom in BBall for a few seasons until the recruiting (and coaching) elevated. Football I believe within 1-2 years would be competitive should the teams I mentioned bail. Again this is a scenario I am picturing, but it would explain the why Cobb and Peackock did not move so quickly with the last round of invites.

  30. Sean S.

    August 31, 2012 at 1:46 pm

    "Why move up to BCS? Considering some of the BCS members receive $25,000,000 per year for just playing football in one of the top five conferences should be reason enough."

    True, but a very small minority of teams reach that level, and those teams that are up there are not going anywhere anytime soon. Do ASU boosters seriously believe they can put together a team to compete against the likes of the SEC or the Pac12? Teams that draw down not only lucrative TV licensing rights but also have automatic berths in BCS bowls? Teams with 100K plus stadiums and are selling 80-90% of those?

    Those factors are important because, simply put, talent costs money. My alma matter (S. Car.) is investing 50 million dollars over the next 5 years in facilities and expansion of football programs alone. They just spent 2.5 million on a new television screen for God sakes. And UF and Auburn and Alabama make my program look paltry in the level of investment and facilities. If you're a recruit looking at getting the exposure and the play time necessary to be scouted by the NFL, a SEC or similar bruiser power conference is where you're going to go.

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